Thinking of stepping up to a lubesizer..... looking for opinions.

[TheDoctor]

I wish the RCBS had a ratchet like the Lyman. That back and forth thing gets old. Had I not started powder coating the majority of my boolits, I would look real hard at a Star. Truly do not shoot enough to really need one, but what does need have to do with anything?

[ascast]

HI again, I re-read this post and I think the real question is "what are you going to do with it?"
I had a Star with a 0.458" die and I thought it would work for my BPCR stuff, 45-70. Well, it was not right. 1st, I never size anything unless I have too to get it in the gun. 2nd, I could not get enough lube on the bullets for shooting black. 3rd the Star is a push through design and you really don't want your long range bullets dropping out in a pile and getting the bases dinged up. So my money, for high volume pistol-can't beat a Star, for slow fire long range rifle, probably not a Star. have fun

[cbrick]

Another point for the Star that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that nose first push through sizing is more concentric than in & out sizing. Rifle or handgun a non concentrically sized bullet will not be as accurate as a concentric bullet.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

My thoughts on the subject at hand.

1. The Star is the absolute best on the market and the price reflects that. I don't have one.

2. The Lyman 45 while a nice piece of nostalgia, is a weak sister compared to the later generations of Lyman machines.

3. I don't there is any significant between the RCBS and Lyman, except the customer service and that prize goes to RCBS.

4. Me, I limp along with three Lyman 450's and have no plans to change unless I win the lottery, and then I will buy a bank of new Star machines.

[cbrick]

It's a different situation for those that have been casting for some time and would like to go with the Star. Once an investment in dies is made and that can be considerable switching machines means replacing all those dies. Makes switching a good bit tougher to justify. For those just contemplating their first lubrisizer such as the OP of this thread starting with what you may well want to end up with the Star is the way to go.

An alternative for nose first push through sizing is the LEE. You can have the push through benefit of concentricity and lube in a Lyman/RCBS etc. with a die .001" larger than used to size.

Rick

[BrassMagnet]

Now for my opinion.

I love the Star.
Most custom moulds come with a die to fit Lyman/RCBS sizers.
Magma customer service is poor compared to Star San Diego back in the old days.
If I can't do what I want with a Star due to lack of sizers or top punches, then I will go to a Lyman.

[Dusty Ed]

Howdy Fellers & ascast
First Of all I size an Lube on the Star Lubrasizer 45-70 ,45-60 ,40-65 ,50-90, 50 S&W ETC. If your 45-70 is to small that is your fault
for ordering .458 instead of a .459 or .460 on up ,as far as not getting enough lube It either not adjusted right or you have the wrong
holes plugged.
The push through is no problem You can catch each one as it comes though the Machine ,I drop my bullets in a Pan 6" drop ,it don't ding them .
You are right about it being right for pistol bullets ,I use the auto bullet feeder with 1/2" copper tubes 70 bullets per tube, I can run a tube in about 3min.
You can fix that problem with running the 45-70 through your machine.
Dusty Ed

[MBTcustom]

My opinion:
Lyman 450, 4500, RCBS LAM, and Seaco:
Pros:
Very strong units that will size even heat treated, fully hard bullets.
Cheap dies that are readily available all over the place.
Slightly less expensive than other models.
Excellent way to get a perfectly seated gas check.
No difference in use, between plain based, or GC bullets.
Cons:
They very rarely size a bullet straight, as the alignment at rest is different than the alignment under duress of sizing.
Very hard to clean the lube out if you care to change.
The special nut that holds the die in the Lyman offerings is easily cross threaded at which point the press is ruined.
Lube tends to get everywhere including the lube grooves.
Star bullet sizer:
Pros:
Absolutely perfectly concentric sizing of bullets due to the push through method with no "pinch between punches".
Speed. Raw unadulterated speed when casting plain based bullets. (did I mention it was fast?)
Lube is placed exactly, precisely, in the lube grooves you want, and no where else. Very very clean in this regard.
Easy to clean out and switch lubes.
Lathesmith dies. (truly excellent tools available from member Lathesmith, a CB VS. He will make them custom to the lube groove configuration of the bullets you intend to lube.)

Cons:
Very weak mechanical design (mine is the old Santa Fe model). Bullets must be soft in order to be sized. If you heat treat your bullets, they must be all sized within 3 hours of quenching or you will turn the handle of the Star into a pretzel trying to get the bullets run through there.
Dies are expensive and not commonly available on ebay etc etc etc like H&I dies are for the other presses
Harder to adjust perfectly than the Lyman RCBS or Seaco. The stroke must be set so that the lube grooves line up with the holes precisely and this can be frustrating if you're not used to it.
Gas checked spitzers are difficult. Because the press depends on the next bullet to push the first bullet through the die and take its place, pointed bullets will damage the gas check on the bullets ahead of them. This is easily solved with an aluminum or copper pusher blank that is used to push the bullet through the die, recovered from the pile of bullets below the press and used again. Not a huge deal, but it slows you down, and your life becomes the pursuit of the pusher blank, and not allowing it to fall in the bucket with the other bullets.

All things considered, I like the Star better than all the options despite its quirky nature and requirement for constant adjustment and tuning. It's worth it to me for the speed and precision.
That said, I use Lee push through dies and dip lubing more than any other method, and the Star is relegated to lubing large runs of bullets only (like 300+) while the Lyman 450 sits unused for the past 5 years.
Just my opinion.

Thank you.

[Love Life]

Hmmm. If starting from the ground up, get the star and call it good. You may not appreciate it now, but you will later on down the road. If you ever tire of it, you can sell it for what you paid for it.

[KAYDADOG]

I agree DustyEd. There should be no problem filling any lube grooves. One reason I could think of is possibly the lube is not flowing enough where a heated unit may be required. As stated the correct lube holes may not be setup correctly. All I can say is that I have invested in quality reloading equipment over the last twenty years. I still have an old RCBS sizer, push in, push out. There is no comparison using a feed through Star sizer. Everyone is on some kind of budget. If your going to do reloading the rest of your life the extra few $100 dollars will be well worth it.
I've also added some improvements over the standard machine.
Air pressure lube control.
Built custom aluminum plate to accept heating element.
PID temperature controller with bullet counter, raised base bullets drop through circular type proximity switch.
Bullets drop through bench and caught several inches below. If worried about dings, possibly rifle only, let them fall into a rag/towel. Never had a problem with dings unless I dropped one on the concrete floor.
Using the standard Star bullet feeder I built a small platform/stand above to accept 6/tube collators holding about 150/bullets. Have three different sizes to accept 25-06 rifle up to 500/S&W. It almost takes longer to fill the tubes than it does to do the sizing. That's how fast bullets can be sized taking your time. Not like some of the marathon videos out there seeing how many one can do. Always quality first. Reloading no matter what step your doing should not be a race against the clock, just common sense.
Like others said once you get a caliber setup take your punch extended measurement. After changing calibers back and forth the setup will always be the same. I took my documentation about ten steps further. I detailed each Star die I use and the lube hole locations in Autocad. Drew up the cast bullet details to actual size and placed bullet detail into die detail lining up the lube holes that will be used and not used. Based on the actual dimensions all I have to do is take a dimension how far down the bullet needs to be pushed into the die, perfect every time.
Just another point I never had a problem seating gas checks on rifle or pistol calibers. It takes longer only because you need to place each one on the bullet.
One of the best pieces of equipment you'll ever buy if your a serious bullet caster.

[Char-Gar]

It's a different situation for those that have been casting for some time and would like to go with the Star. Once an investment in dies is made and that can be considerable switching machines means replacing all those dies. Makes switching a good bit tougher to justify. For those just contemplating their first lubrisizer such as the OP of this thread starting with what you may well want to end up with the Star is the way to go.

An alternative for nose first push through sizing is the LEE. You can have the push through benefit of concentricity and lube in a Lyman/RCBS etc. with a die .001" larger than used to size.

Rick

That is the exact situation I found myself in with several decades of Lyman and RCBS sizing dies for my Lyman sizing machines. Absent a lottery win, it would be far to costly to switch to a Star.

17 years ago when this board was first born, we broke the code on how to size long slim rifle bullets without bending them in traditional base first sizing machine. A nose first push through sizing die was the answer.

Buckshot made some gizmos to hold RCBS and Lyman dies in a bench press to do this and it worked fine. They were made from aluminium RCBS expanding die bodies. Years later The Perfesser designed and made another gizmo for the same purpose. I bought one of the first and it also works to perfection. I think he still makes these things.

I use the same die I sized the bullet in to lube it in a Lyman machine. This is easy to do and there is no significant pressure on the nose to bend the bullet. By using the same die, I avoid the extra cost of having a .001 larger die just to lube the bullet. I have done it both ways and my targets show no difference.

The Lee press mounted sizing system also works well, but the diameters sold by Lee are very limited. However it is quite easy to lap a Lee die out a couple of thou. I use cast bullet coated with Clover 320 lapping paste. I clean the die and size a fresh bullet to measure the progress. I then use this fresh bullet to continue the lapping until I am where I want to be. It does not take all that long.

[Jeff Maney]

Good move on the sizer. Get the Lyman or RCBS, look for the best deal. Same tooling fits both.

jeff

[Ken in Iowa]

If you buy used, it's best to get one from a seller who knows what he's got and represents it fairly. Beware of eBay sellers who may not know anything and are selling a lemon. Caveat emptor.

[dragon813gt]

If you buy used, it's best to get one from a seller who knows what he's got and represents it fairly. Beware of eBay sellers who may not know anything and are selling a lemon. Caveat emptor.

But if you do that you will most likely pay more. It's definitely buyer beware. But sometimes a loan Star or LAM isn't listed properly and you can snag it for pennies on the dollar. Magma will rebuild a Star for you. And RCBS will send you parts to rebuild their sizers for free. I've rebuilt two LAM1s and both are in perfect working order. One now sports a custom paint job. Still green just a more pleasing color to look at :laugh:

[gwpercle]

Just get one, it doesn't matter which maker, they all make life easier.
I gave up the pan/tumble for a Lyman 450, late 60's or so, still using it , still the best money I ever spent. Back then hard lubes didn't matter to us home casters so soft lube was the norm. I'm still using stuff that doesn't need a heater and have no lead problems. Sometimes I believe the hard stuff doesn't work as well as the soft lube's.
Gary

[largom]

Any lub/sizer is better than no lub/sizer. Let your wallet pick the one for you.

Larry

[Mike W1]

I wish the RCBS had a ratchet like the Lyman. That back and forth thing gets old. Had I not started powder coating the majority of my boolits, I would look real hard at a Star. Truly do not shoot enough to really need one, but what does need have to do with anything?

I tried doing a search for a post I know I made. Couldn't figure how to find it. Anyways here's the pertinent stuff.

¼” drive - ½” 6 point socket with a slot cut in it to allow a bolt to go through
the top of the luber screw. An angle grinder readily cuts the slot.

[Doggonekid]

I bought a uses RCBS lube sizer from a local gun smith, he said he used it a lot. He also told me to go to Lowes and buy me some O rings and I could rebuild it for about $3. He was right. It lasted me for over 20 years. I let my friend use it and he loved it so much I hated to ask for it back so I bought me a new RCBS LAM II. I have never regretted since. I found the heater is a wonderful thing. I never used my sizer longer than a couple of hours, so I never had it overheat. It sure made it easer to lube my boolits. The Lyman heater works well with the RCBS machine. If you GC your boolits you need a lube sizer.

[rockitrob]

I am sorry I did not buy my Star sizer 20 years ago. Who can argue with a base punch that goes nose first? Anyone who says it is twice as fast never used one. Put bullet in, pull handle put new bullet in. 3 steps. RCBS , put bullet in, push forward and back, pull bullet out, put new bullet in.4 steps. The air feed also frees up steps and is easy to keep even pressure. Be ready to pay for it at first but I had probably 3 different punches for my RCBS, only about 6 for this one.

[Harles Dawson]

What he said. I use a wooden dowel to drive sizer die out, put proper size die in, check notes, adjust punch to proper
setting. Takes about as long as it did to type this.