Partially sportorized Reminton 1917

[lpspinner]

So I have this sitting around for a few years in the "project to be started" pile. It's a Winchester M1917 in .30-06. The person was a machinist and already milled the ears off. The top of the receiver is flat. She didn't even round it off. She was also a long distance, high power shooter and told me the barrel was shot out.

So I'm thing of finding someone to finish rounding out the receiver, drill and tap it and then replace with a 338 Lapua barrel. Any idea who makes one? I already know about the Criterion and Numrich barrels. But no word on other calibers.

Any thoughts?


eta: It's a Winchester, Not a Remington as I first thought.

[flounderman]

I would shoot the barrel before you take someone elses word for it being shot out. I can't remember seeing a shot out 06 Enfield barrel. They can be ruined by neglect, the muzzle might be worn from cleaning and I would shorten the barrel, anyway. I'm about done with one right now and the barrel is going to be shortened. The barrel on mine was supposed to be worn out but just needed cleaning and it is almost a new barrel. Give the barrel a good cleaning and inspect the crown area.

[bruce drake]

I agree with Flounderman. I bought a Winchester made 1914 Pattern Enfield (the 1917's big sister) that the previous owner said was "tired". A several hard scrubbings to remove a bunch of copper fouling and a fresh crown has brought that rifle back to shooting under 3MOA with 147gr pulled Russian 7.62x54R .310 bullets and 46gr of Russian powder from that 7.62x54R spamcan ammo. When I want to shoot past 300 yards, I switch to Sierra 174gr HPBT with 36gr of IMR4895 for the same accuracy.

That 303 British barrel on my P14 uses the same Enfield Rifling and a heavy diet of 303B surplus will burn most Enfield rifle's throats out but my rifle's barrel was replaced in 1936 and then saw use on a Royal Navy ship until it was surplused out and sold to the owner I bought it from used Commercial ammo only. Americans didn't use Cordite in their 30-06 cartridges so your throat should not be eroded unless through hard use and misuse in the past.

Good Luck as those Rifles are quality millwork all the way through. Sorry to hear that the rear ears are ground off. A lot of quality rifles were sporterized in the past.

[Dan Cash]

I would talk to JES or John Taylor and see if the existing barrel could be bored out to .338 and chambered. Open your bolt face and maybe a little magazine work and away you go.

[Mk42gunner]

You can also use a scope base meant for a 336 Marlin on the flat rear bridge, as long as the height lines up with the base you put on the front.

Robert

[lpspinner]

Thanks, all good advice. I like the idea about re-boring the barrel to .338. That would save having to find a barrel and trying to remove it.

I'll look into the 336 Marlin scope base.

I tend to believe the previous owner about being shot out as to the buckets of .30-06 spent brass she gave me. She said they were all shot through the 1917.

[lpspinner]

So something like this?

[ballistim]

I don't know the answer to this but, is it possible for a barrel "shot out" using jacketed loads to still possibly be a good cast bullet shooter with all copper fouling removed and boolits sized to fit the throat/bore size? I do like the idea of sending it to JES for a 338 rebore.

[leadman]

I question if the reinforce section of an original 1917 barrel would be long enough for a 338 Lapua. I have read that the 300 win Mag. is pushing it.
If it was mine I would try shooting it unless you are set on making it a long range jacketed bullet shooter out of it.

[WineMan]

Remember a Highpower shooter's shot out is might mean its not a 1 MOA barrel any more but still shoots 2-3 Minute of Deer pretty well. If a rebarrel is in the cards the CMP has Criterion 30-06 barrels all day long. If you want bigger, get an 8 mm-06, 338-06 or a 35 Whelen. The action is plenty strong to hop them up. The 1917's can be tricky to rebarrel although the cracked receivers may not be the issue some think it is. Just be sure you have someone who has been to the 1917 Rodeo before and has some feel for these old warhorses.

Dave

[Frank46]

I'm with Leadman. There won't be enough metal forward of the large cylindrical portion of the barrel to safely contain the pressures from the 338 lapua magnum. There were stories floating around about the barrel rupturing due to the thinness of the barrel walls. Best get either a heavy target style barrel and play it safe. And Wineman is dead on about being familiar with taking off barrels off the 1917 style actions and they usually are screwed on tight. Best way would be chuck the barreled action in a lathe with the receiver facing the tailstock and using either a cutoff tool or grooving tool about a 1/16th ahead of the receiver make a deep cut all around the barrel. The cut helps removal by releasing the compression stresses made when the barrel is screwed on. Won't crack a receiver ring that way. Remember to strip the receiver of everything including the trigger. Much safer that way. I've done a few mauser and U.S. enfields as I suggested. No problems removing the barrel. used a big pipe wrench with the receiver held in place on a block of stel drilled for 1/4x20 screws and washers. Frank

[lpspinner]

All excellent advice. Wineman, that thought had cross my mined. What's not go for her, might be acceptable to me. I did read up about how tight the barrels can be screwed on and so people start with a relief cut before removing the barrel.

Once I get home from this land of -21° windchill, I'll pull it out of the project pile and check out the barrel. Either way, I might want to have the receiver rounded out. Just for cosmetics.

Leadman does have a valid point to consider. Do they sell .338 Lapua barrels for the 1917? Haven't found any doing a Google search. Or do I need to purchase a blank and have it threaded for the 1917?

[bruce drake]

Call JES and see about reboring the barrel to 8mm-06 or 338-06 or 35 Whelen. Best way to freshen up the barrel if you need to go that route.

[WineMan]

Just because you can, does not mean you should. I have no axe to grind against the 338 L. I am just not sure a rifle designed in 1914 is the right platform for a cartridge designed in the 1990's. There are plenty of 1914's/1917's in lots of hot magnum calibers and the 30-06 case is plenty big to use today's slow powders. I am sure someone can get you the barrel you want in the caliber you want it in. I am just saying that a modern action and trigger might be better for the "ultimate rifle" than a cock on closing, dog leg bolt, non adjustable trigger, action that is 100 years old. I personally would go a different route to a 338L but I would have a 338-06 in something like two seconds with this Centenarian. It sounds like fun no matter which way you go, so have at it!

Dave

[lpspinner]

Dave I appreciate your opinion. I did some more research and it seems the 1917 action is plenty strong for the 338 LM. It seems that prior to the 338LM, a lot of people in the past have been converting them to a 416 Roberts, which is the parent case for the 338LM.

It looks like I can still buy the cock on opening conversion kit and Timney has an adjustable trigger.

I also did some more reading on the 338-06 and while it's a excellent round, I like the fact that I can get a heavier bullet over 3000 fps.

Nothing is set in stone. Once I get home, I'll yank it out and clean up the barrel and see what condition it's in. With my travel schedule for this year, it's going to take a while to build.

[Screwbolts]

Take a look at this, I keep telling myself, I don't need this!


"New M1917 Enfield Barrel. It is chambered for 30-06 Springfield. It looks like a standard Military Contour and is the standard Military length at 26 inches.

Go to ebay do a search it is there, link not coming threw, currently $75

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't know the answer to this but, is it possible for a barrel "shot out" using jacketed loads to still possibly be a good cast bullet shooter with all copper fouling removed and boolits sized to fit the throat/bore size? I do like the idea of sending it to JES for a 338 rebore.

Rifles are such contrary beasts that you never know. There is more than one way of being shot out - evenly worn, or concentrated near the throat, smoothly or with a frosted surface, etc. But cast or even more lightly jacketed than most may do this. It is about the most unlikely condition for very heavily jacketed bullets, or solid copper or solid base boat-tails etc., to do well in.

Another possibility, if you can bore it out to 1/2in., would be to line it with the liner Track of the Wolf sell for the .30 Luger. The .311 groove diameter is better than you find in many a No4 Enfield.

[ballistim]

Rifles are such contrary beasts that you never know. There is more than one way of being shot out - evenly worn, or concentrated near the throat, smoothly or with a frosted surface, etc. But cast or even more lightly jacketed than most may do this. It is about the most unlikely condition for very heavily jacketed bullets, or solid copper or solid base boat-tails etc., to do well in.

Another possibility, if you can bore it out to 1/2in., would be to line it with the liner Track of the Wolf sell for the .30 Luger. The .311 groove diameter is better than you find in many a No4 Enfield.

Thanks for answering my question, good to know!

[lpspinner]

Take a look at this, I keep telling myself, I don't need this!


"New M1917 Enfield Barrel. It is chambered for 30-06 Springfield. It looks like a standard Military Contour and is the standard Military length at 26 inches.

Go to ebay do a search it is there, link not coming threw, currently $75

Thanks,

I will try to keep an eye on it, but the closing time is around the same time I land. Depending on how I'm reading the closing time.

[Geppetto]

Dave I appreciate your opinion. I did some more research and it seems the 1917 action is plenty strong for the 338 LM. It seems that prior to the 338LM, a lot of people in the past have been converting them to a 416 Roberts, which is the parent case for the 338LM.

It looks like the 338LM is based upon the 416 rigby. However, the 416 rigby operates at a max pressure of ~47000 psi, vs ~60,000 psi for the 338LM, so you are talking a 22% higher pressure vs the 416. So the bolt thrust of the 416 Rigby is on the order of 12800 lbs, vs 16300 lbs for the 338LM
. All of this in comparison to a bolt thrust of around 10400 lbs for a 30-06. So you pushing 60% greater bolt thrust with the 338LM in comparison to a 30-06. IDK, personally I would be concerned about bolt set back at minimum with that round. Maybe it isn't a concern, but its something I'd vet out before going through the effort of building the rifle.

(NOTE: the above calculations are approximates, I used the base diameter of the cartridge, rather than the internal dimensions out of convenience, so there is some error/slop in the numbers.)