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Thread: SLOW Twists and FAST Casts Using CUSTOM Barrels...Results, Please?

  1. #1
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    SLOW Twists and FAST Casts Using CUSTOM Barrels...Results, Please?

    After tiring of losing the ability to follow the results of tests being conducted by members here using custom barrels with slower-than-normal twist rates, usually because "RPM" is mentioned, I decided to give those slow-twist test results a thread of their own.
    Please feel free to discuss any aspect of your experiences with these customized rifles, including RPM and any thoughts you may have of the limiting factors it might impose on cast projectiles. Members of the forum interested in exploring these ideas have every right to discuss them openly, without being disrupted by thread removals.
    The title says it all, so..... anybody want to post RESULTS?

  2. #2
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    MODERATOR help, please?...
    I started this post without knowing that Larry Gibson would not be able to contribute in this entire sub-forum. Since Larry's input is critical to the subject this post is attempting to explore, I've copied and pasted the thread to "Special Projects".
    Would a moderator please close and/or remove this thread from this sub-forum so that it can be openly discussed under "Special Projects"?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

  3. #3
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    Each boolit length needs it's own RPM's. Long ones need faster twists or a higher velocity.
    A faster twist can actually handle more boolit lengths. Depends on distances shot too, if 100 and under, a slow twist can be better because a boolit over spun can open short range groups but will settle with long ranges.
    Then many shooting cast in rifles shoot very light loads at low velocity so a faster rate is better.
    Look at the 45-70 rifle. Many for hunting use 1 in 20" and are very hard to work with, needing a light, fast boolit. BPCR's have 1 in 18" but with the huge boolits, it is still not fast enough. MR made the BFR 45-70 revolver with a 1 in 14" rate and it will out shoot every single rifle made with a large range of boolits.
    A 30 caliber will work at 1 in 10" to 1 in 12". Any slower and you might not reach enough velocity for stability. Same with the Marlin .44 mag with a 1 in 38" rate, nothing shoots past 50 yards.
    For me, I want a faster twist in any gun, you can reduce velocity if needed but once too slow, you will not get enough speed.

  4. #4
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    The NOE forum has two threads that cover these results exhaustively.

    Gear

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    And Beyond5.56.com has exhaustive critique of pretty much anything said elsewhere on high velocity with accuracy using cast bullets... Onceabull
    "The Eagle is no flycatcher"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by onceabull View Post
    And Beyond5.56.com has exhaustive critique of pretty much anything said elsewhere on high velocity with accuracy using cast bullets... Onceabull
    Be careful mentioning other forums. I'd hate to see you get banned.

    Have you come across any good deals on cool guns lately?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master on Heaven’s Range
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    Thanks for the "heads-up". I had surmised that given post #4 above,mine would pass muster...as to new treasures, I'm hurting bad today,after sleeping in and missing GunAuctions# 13241654,only consolation I've come up with is--"it would have probably gone up over $800 if I had got in the game"..Easily the lowest I've seen seen go for...(search closed auctions)... Onceabull
    "The Eagle is no flycatcher"

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    Right now I'm trolling looking for bullseye built 1911 pistols and old colt 1911 pistols. I need another Norinco so I can play the pimp my Norinco game with 2 guns.

    My wife is going to kill me.

  9. #9
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    Pat Iffland did it 10 or more years ago in CBA matches with success.I dont think he is a member here now.He used a 1-17 twist in a 30x47 with heat treated 165g bulelts at 2900 or there abouts.He did very well,nobody appreciated what he was doing back then.he shot many 1/2" groups as i remember.later on a guy did the same in Unlimited pistol (short rifle XP 100 type) with a 135g LBT in a 30BR at near 3000 fps and won a few big matches.Best way is to research Cast Cullet Assoc. match results.
    Last edited by HARRYMPOPE; 02-11-2015 at 07:57 PM.
    Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries

  10. #10
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    Sir: are you saying you are aware of someone who actually shot high velocity cast bullets at matchs with published results,and officials scoring...!!! Onceabull
    "The Eagle is no flycatcher"

  11. #11
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    I think Pat I. did plenty of research on twist rates and cast bullets, and he is a proponent of RPM threshold as he told me many moons ago. Yes it does exist! As for the 5.56 forum cast section I won't waste my time going there, too much slander, sniping and trolling by the unmentionable one and his minions, but I am working on getting that resolved We'll see
    Charter Member #148

  12. #12
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    Just for the record, Pat showed me his target backer, and it was indeed impressive.
    Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.

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    Yeah Pat done it I got a couple of his molds.
    Several others have done it other way's
    (shrug) big deal.

  14. #14
    bhn22
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    There is no one single way to accomplish ones goals with cast bullets. Or practically anything else for that matter. The benchrest guys explore the RPM theory off and on too.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargnasher View Post
    The NOE forum has two threads that cover these results exhaustively.

    Gear
    And that's where the results will have to continue to be posted. This site clearly does not want our shooting posted, or even discussed. I just saw a whole thread disappear, with dozens of posts that took many hours of loading and shooting to create. Luckily I still have the pictures on my computer, mostly with the data written on them.

    I don't understand why we cannot have spirited debate and even arguments, these are not subjects where kum-bah-yah is common and there are several schools of thought that all have very opinionated defenders. And so what? I saw no name calling in the XCB thread that disappeared, and none in the Slow Twist thread that was just closed in Special Projects. It's time to put on Big Boy Pants and allow the discussion to cover more than 10 grains of Unique in a 1903 Springfield (no offense to the 1903).

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    I'm looking!! I mean, I still suck, but I'm trying!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjornb View Post
    And that's where the results will have to continue to be posted. This site clearly does not want our shooting posted, or even discussed. I just saw a whole thread disappear, with dozens of posts that took many hours of loading and shooting to create. Luckily I still have the pictures on my computer, mostly with the data written on them.

    I don't understand why we cannot have spirited debate and even arguments, these are not subjects where kum-bah-yah is common and there are several schools of thought that all have very opinionated defenders. And so what? I saw no name calling in the XCB thread that disappeared, and none in the Slow Twist thread that was just closed in Special Projects. It's time to put on Big Boy Pants and allow the discussion to cover more than 10 grains of Unique in a 1903 Springfield (no offense to the 1903).
    It isn't the membership, Bjorn, there are many here disgusted by the same issues.
    The problem is a very tiny group of, for lack of a better term, cyber-bullies. They imploy the exact same tactics each time by starting confrontational exchanges in order to disrupt a peaceful thread. They try to escalate the rhetoric (even over Goodsteel's emphatic apologies, as he attempted to keep the thread discussion civil) to create a false pretense for "moderator intervention", which invariably leads to thread closures or even out-right thread eliminations.
    It is simply that they don't want you, or anyone else testing these slow-twist concepts (ESPECIALLY LARRY GIBSON) to share ANY information that might support ideas they've argued against in the past. THEY have decided that none of you guys investing your time, money, and hard work on these tests should be able to post anywhere on this site about your test results... and it appears obvious to me that they have a moderator more than willing to help them silence you all... Thus far, they've been highly successful, and have no reason to stop.

    I started the now locked thread specifically to give you guys a small safe spot on this huge forum where you could post freely without the disruptive tactics that ALWAYS seek you out. It was clearly stated from the outset, but that isn't good enough for your cyber-stalkers.
    I have sent a review request to the webmaster asking for help in unlocking the thread. I have explained how and why every thread you guys attempt to share your test results in gets axed. I have stated that it is my opinion that there is moderator bias involved. I have asked that there be at least ONE thread available for you guys to be able to post in without being subjected to nazi-like censorship by the tiny group of egocentrics that insist on plaguing you.

    I hope that you, Larry, Tim, Sgt.Mike, and every other member here that is interested in what you are doing continue to press for that safe spot for you to post, free of the close-minded bigotry that prevents your input currently. Your work deserves to be documented here, it would greatly benefit the site to have those tests results for future reference.
    It's shameful that we've reached this point, but I see no reason to accept things the way they are, regardless of who your test results aggravates... So don't leave, my friend. That would only be rewarding bad behaviour.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjornb View Post
    I don't understand why we cannot have spirited debate and even arguments, these are not subjects where kum-bah-yah is common and there are several schools of thought that all have very opinionated defenders.
    No problems with that sentiment, however some of those groups put restrictions (much to their benefit it would seem) on just how it could be accomplished....... when in the context of knowledge of cast, it can be done many ways, not just their way. That's the problem Bjorn.

  19. #19
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    The problem is the bickering.
    Discussing high velocity is actually encouraged it's how the details are discussed that brings up the removal of the thread.
    Anybody trying to read those threads would give up from the drivel long before they picked up any actual useful information.
    I have tried and tried to get this subject out in the open.
    It pains me to see the threads being closed, but I can only clean them up and re-open them so many times. (Especially on a work phone)
    i dunno any other way to make this happen.

  20. #20
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    Cyber bullying?

    The National Crime Prevention Council defines cyber-bullying as “the process of using the Internet, cell phones or other devices to send or post text or images intended to hurt or embarrass another person.”


    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check