Stupid, Stupid, Stupid

[craig61a]

Well no matter what your heritage, station in life, whatever, hammering on explosives (primer) is always very bright... I figured this out with a framing hammer and rolls of caps a long time ago.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...875ECC6A1D7FC5

[Boz330]

Well no matter what your heritage, station in life, whatever, hammering on explosives (primer) is always very bright... I figured this out with a framing hammer and rolls of caps a long time ago.

Pretty amazing what kind of kick back you can get from a whole roll of caps.

Back when I was guiding the following happened in another camp. We guided a lot of ML hunts in unit 13 NM. Many of the guys that came to hunt with MLs didn't have much experience with them, but were there because of the quality of the bulls there.
One hunter double loaded his rifle. he had pyrodex pellets, bullet Pyrodex pellets and another bullet. Not sure how they determined that but the guid suggested filling the barrel with water after the got the pellets in the back out through the breech. This was one of the inlines. The hunter didn't want to rust the barrel on his new rifle so he placed it on his boot toe while he pounded on the bullet in back with a rod and hammer. The Pyrodex went of and the front bullet went through his foot bounced off of the concrete floor and went back through his foot. The back bullet came through the breech which was smaller than the barrel and put the shrapnel in the right side of his head taking out the right eye in the process.
This was pretty far out in the boonies so they called EMS and they said that they would meet them on I-40. It was 40 miles on dirt roads to get there. When EMS looked at him they called in stat flight and they dusted him off to ABQ.
I doubt that anybody even had a bullet puller. And it was probably one of the big jacketed bullets.

Bob

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bob, ouch! That was some story, how did the fellow fair in the end?

KW

[oldred]

Does this mean that Pyrodex/Pyrodex pellets can be fired off from impact? There was no primer involved? That's interesting and I have often wondered if that could be done, however I wasn't about to smack a Pyro pellet with hammer!

[EDG]

Austin Hatch is a college basketball player.
In 2003 his dad (a doctor by the way) crashed a Bonanza killing Austin's mother, brother and sister.
Austin and his father survived.
In 2011 his dad crashed a second plane. It killed Austin's father and step mother.
Austin was in a coma for 8 weeks with a brain injury and had a long, long rehab to get back to semi-normal.

"I wonder if Austin Hatch thinks the 3rd time is the charm".

Not sure who Austin Hatch is, but one of my customers managed to kill himself and his wife in a Bonanza.
Bob

[Boz330]

Bob, ouch! That was some story, how did the fellow fair in the end?

KW

Kenny,
He survived the thing with the loss of his right eye and a pretty mangled food but it sure could have been worse. The outfitter went to see him the next day since they were worried about liability but the guy admitted it was his fault and never sued.
I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice.

On another note do you remember meeting Dick Hoff at Raton back in 12'? Him and I were friends, hunting and shooting partners for more than 54 years. Anyway cancer got him last March. After he was clean for 1 year they said that he had a 99.3% chance of being cured. He had trouble completing the course of fire at the World Champs in South Africa in Sep 13' because it was coming back with a vengeance.


Bob

[Knarley]

Have him put in ONE ear plug. That way your advise can go in.......................

Knarley

[dtknowles]

........... I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice............
Bob

Don't Pyrodex pellets have some sort of accelerator (may be black powder) on one end so that they ignite reliably.


Tim

[Hickory]

If he practices law and has a grasp on any sort of logic, explain to him the concept of Murphy's law and how it works.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bob,

yes es I do remember Meeting Dick. Sure seemed to be a darn nice guy, most of the shooters I have meet in person are. Very sorry to hear of his passing, one of the good guys, my own near brush with death has been most enlightening. I also know that as long as you two shot together that this has to been most hard on you also, my condolences to you also losing a pard is rough.

KW

[Boz330]

Bob,

yes es I do remember Meeting Dick. Sure seemed to be a darn nice guy, most of the shooters I have meet in person are. Very sorry to hear of his passing, one of the good guys, my own near brush with death has been most enlightening. I also know that as long as you two shot together that this has to been most hard on you also, my condolences to you also losing a pard is rough.

KW

Thanks Kenny. He was a class act, a perfectionist, and a hell of an amateur gunsmith. He built this rifle for me back in the late 80s. He has also done many re-barrels and misc. work over the years. There was nothing that he didn't do well.

Bob

[Sharpsman]

Bastid has to be a covert Democrat!!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Kenny,
He survived the thing with the loss of his right eye and a pretty mangled food but it sure could have been worse. The outfitter went to see him the next day since they were worried about liability but the guy admitted it was his fault and never sued.
I wouldn't have thought that you could have set off Pyrodex like that but don't think that trying to pound it out would have been my first choice.

On another note do you remember meeting Dick Hoff at Raton back in 12'? Him and I were friends, hunting and shooting partners for more than 54 years. Anyway cancer got him last March. After he was clean for 1 year they said that he had a 99.3% chance of being cured. He had trouble completing the course of fire at the World Champs in South Africa in Sep 13' because it was coming back with a vengeance.


Bob

I am pretty sure Pyrodex usually won't go off from impact, but observe how much good "usually won't" did him. I wonder if he had ever had a misfire? On a more conventional muzzle-loader I have seen fragments of primer composition adhering to the nipple when the cap was removed.

Anybody who uses a muzzle loader far from home needs a good cleaning rod, so how much trouble and expense would it be to have a bullet-drawing (and pellet-drawing) screw?

[Boz330]

I am pretty sure Pyrodex usually won't go off from impact, but observe how much good "usually won't" did him. I wonder if he had ever had a misfire? On a more conventional muzzle-loader I have seen fragments of primer composition adhering to the nipple when the cap was removed.

Anybody who uses a muzzle loader far from home needs a good cleaning rod, so how much trouble and expense would it be to have a bullet-drawing (and pellet-drawing) screw?

We hunted a primitive weapons area ONLY. Many of the clients that hunted this area were after the BIG elk that were in the area. Way too many of them had never fired a ML before arriving. The outfitter sold many these hunts at Safari Club shows and would order the guns and have them shipped to the ranch for the hunter. I zeroed many of these rifles.
It was up to the guide to instruct the hunter on how to load and shoot the gun. I wasn't in this camp at the time of this incident and only heard about it from a guide that was there. I have had many people tell me that Pyrodex won't go off like that, BUT the fact is that there is a guy out there with no right eye and a mangled foot. This was an inline and the breach plug was out so there wasn't residue priming compound left on the nipple that caused the problem. I always made sure that the hunters riding in my truck cleaned the compound off after depriming for that very reason.
Even if there was compound left that wouldn't have been the problem since it was a double load and the back pellets were removed from the rear. The pellets between the 2 bullets were the culprits.

Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Ah, I've got it now. Hindsight is a marvelous teacher, but he would probably have been better off replacing about a quarter of the rear charge and firing the rest out. I think it would have been long odds on harming the rifle, and no chance of harming him if a long piece of string was used. I wouldn't count on water getting past a sabot round.

I once made a device to couple an artist's airbrush compressor to an ordinary muzzle-loader nipple, which would probably blow out a bullet or charge in safety. But I never had to use it, just like I have never seen snow since I bought my Landrover. An alternative would be for the guiding establishment to adapt a bicycle pump or large grease-gun for the same purpose. If the next one minds a messy cleanup job, tell him about the last.

Of course he would have been all right if his primitive weapon had been a bit more primitive.

[Boz330]

Like you said Hindsight is 20/20.

Bob

[gkainz]

Doctors and Beech Bonanzas is a deadly combination for sure.
Bob

Only the V tails ... mine has a straight tail. But then, I'm not a doctor, so I guess I'm safe (enough).

[Boz330]

Only the V tails ... mine has a straight tail. But then, I'm not a doctor, so I guess I'm safe (enough).

An oversight, we always called them V-tailed Doctor killers, I should have given the full name.
One of my customers killed himself and his wife in a V-tailed doctor killer, and he wasn't a doctor, but he WAS, much more impressed with his abilities than other pilots that knew him. It has been a long time since I read the NTSB report but he managed to take it in from 10 or 12K in the old death spiral, solid IFR.

Bob

[John Allen]

It won't go in! Hit it harder, larger hammer!!!!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Like many a thing in firearms technology, I believe the physics behind V-tailed aircraft is pretty sound. But perhaps novelty attracts people who, in the phrase born in the days when wet-sponging a cannon bore slowed down the rate of fire, are inclined to chance their arm. "I've got a Weatherby! I can walk on water!"

I forget which 1960s gunsmith I read recounting his attempt to remove a stuck case. He managed to push the bullet down into the case, added the oil which would deactivate the primer, and inserted a rod which he whacked with a hammer. Perhaps it was because modern primers are varnish sealed, but he produced a pretty substantial explosion, which expelled the rod violently. Fortunately he wasn't optimistic enough to be pointing it at any part of his anatomy at the time.