44sp expander die ?

[monge]

What size expander die do you all use just checked mine and its at .424 seems small HL mag says it should be at .428- 430?

[bedbugbilly]

I don't reload 44 spl. (yet) but I did pick up a set of NOS RCBS dies the other day for the 44 spl/44 mag. just to have on the shelf if I run across a decent used SA 44 spl.

I pulled the expansion stem on the expanding die and it measures .425 with my digital calipers (i measured several times turning the stem and they all read .425). I don't know how old this set is but I'm guessing from the 70s or 80s.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Manual calls for a sized .429 slug out of a number of their 429 molds. The groove diameter of their test barrel is listed at .429.

The expanding stem on my RCBS mold, if adjusted correctly, will also flair the mouth of the casing.

The Lee mold chart shows a .429 for their mold configurations for the 44 spl./mag.

You don't mention if you are loading lead, plated or jacketed? I would imagine that might make a difference on what your expansion should be depending on the diameter and the neck tension desired.

I load for a number of 38 specials and some of my molds drop at .360 and I can shoot them "as cast" - which in theory is .003 oversize of a true .357 bore. I flair the mouth just enough to get them started and they seat fine and shoot fine - no swaging of the diameter as far as I can tell . . and even if they do some . . if they shoot well and don't leave leading I'm not going to worry about it.

You don't mention if you have used your dies yet and tried them? That will tell the story . . . Is the .424 an accurate measurement? (not doubting - just asking). What brand of dies? If the current expander is too small, you should be able to change it out to a larger one that will work better with the boolit / bullet you are using. The final test is if the finished cartridge will chamber in your cylinder and how your particular revolver likes it.

Good luck and hopefully someone who loads a lot of 44 spl. will come along and add their "true experience". Interesting question and I'd like to hear what they have to say as well! If a person is going to size a lead boolit to .429 (as the Lyman book says) - seems to me also that the expander stem should be a tad larger? Somewhere around a .001 smaller than the boolit to give neck tension?

[Char-Gar]

I use an old Lyman 310 expander (.429). It is used in either the 310 tong tool or the bench press with a thread adapter. I use if for 44 Magnum as well. I shoot 44 handgun bullets .430 or .432 depending on the handgun.

I have yet to find a Smith and Wesson or Colt 44 Spl or Magnum handgun with throats less than .430. They may be out there, but I have owned one. In days past .429 was a common Smith and Wesson barrel groove diameter, but in the last 25 years, they tend to run .430.

The only Ruger 44 I have is a 1964 Super Blackhawk with .431 barrel groove and .432 cylinder throats. It does well with .432 bullets.

[WALLNUTT]

I use a .430 expander from Buckshot for a .433 bullet in my BHFT in 44SPL. Throats are .433. Sizer is also from Buckshot.

[monge]

How can I get a hold of Buckshot like to order one? Thanks WALLNUT

[DougGuy]

.4285" here on a Lee 44 mag expander. monge you may not need a .433" boolit. What does your barrel slug out at? And how about the cylinder throats?

I use .432" because by the time I got my cylinder throats to match the two largest throats, they were .4325" which worked out great. I get a good amount of neck tension with this expander which is a good thing because I don't shoot really hard alloy. I use 50/50+2% which is bhn12 or so, I can scratch it with a thumbnail.

The harder your alloy, you can use the larger the expander and get good neck tension. If you shoot softer alloy, a smaller expander is better. Your .424" is definitely on the small side.

[monge]

My three 44 measure Vaquero 44sp slug. 4295 throats .432,BHFT slugs.430 throats 432. SRH 44mag slugs .430 throats .4315 I have an old rcbs expander die I think Ill pickup a new lee set . Do you use the factory crimp Die? Thanks JOE

[WALLNUTT]

Buckshot will make any size that you want/need. I stated my sizes to show the relationship between bullet and expander that has worked well for me. I get good neck tension w/o damage and good accuracy. You may need different sizes for your guns as DougGuy stated. Buckshot can be reached via PM on this site. If you are buying LEE dies NOE makes Lyman type M expander powder through die. The one I got from BS was for a Lyman die. Others on here may have more info on who makes what. I use Lyman dies for my 44 and had to open up the bullet alignment part of the seater to accept the larger bullet.

[DougGuy]

I don't use the factory crimp die with the carbide ring in the bottom. In many cases once you load a round and run it through that carbide ring, it sizes the boolit down in the case and not only do you have a smaller boolit, but you lose most of your neck tension as well. Between the amount of crimp, and type of crimp used, and neck tension, neck tension is the most important but it takes neck tension AND crimp to get the best results. One won't really work without the other. You could get away with no crimp in some calibers if you were shooting a single shot, but not a large case with slow burning powder. Those don't really work without crimp.

The crimp I use is a modified collet crimp which closes from the side, here is a thread with photos showing how I modify the die collet to get it to crimp like I want it to: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2239315

[bedbugbilly]

Char Gar - I just got a few misc. 310 dies and one is an expander die with .428 expander plug - there were several other dies for 44 Russian so I am "assuming" this was for that as well - I think I have a 429 expander plug back in MI and I now have a full set (I think) of 310 dies for 44 Russian / Spl.

Anyway . . . my question to you and the others, and I'm guessing the OP would like to know as well . . . why do the die sets have such small expander plugs? The OP states his is .424 and the one in my older RCBS set is measuring at .425 . . which seems a bit "undersize" - is it because these were intended for "jacketed"? Even for jacketed, that seems small?

Obviously, when I get started with loading 44 Russian/Spl and lead, I'm going to have to change out the expander plug on my RCBS die . . . but the 310 dies should work fine in the tongs or with an adapter in the press.

[fng]

I have a Star Universal Progressive press with a tool head set up with old RCBS 44-40win dies turned down to Star thread, the expander looks to be .425 and there's also a set of Lifetyme dies in 44sp without a separate expander so I wonder if they used the same one. Also have a very early Star lubrisizer which came with .429 sizer die so I'm not sure I can use that.