Ruger Vaquero Old style New style

[bouncer50]

Why did Ruger change to the new style different frame and cylinder size and what else. I as i understand the old style grips will not fit the newer models.

[roberts1]

Im not sure why but I have one of each and the frame on the new vaquero is smaller maybe more in line with the size of a colt.

[Char-Gar]

Ruger went back to their original Blackhawk frame before they upsized it to the New Model Blackhawk. The original and "New Vaquero) is about he same size as the Colt SA and therefore popular with the Cowboy Action shooting crowd. The original Blackhawks have always been a popular item on the used market and many lamented the change to a larger frame and cylinder.

[Tar Heel]

I am not quite sure if Char-Gar is spot on with his evaluation but a very good description can be found at the link specified below. The original Vaquero is built on a Blackhawk frame and is very robust. The New Vaquero is a smaller frame and closer to the Colt frame in size and pressure tolerances. Do NOT use Blackhawk style loads (high pressure) in the New Vaquero since it is NOT designed to take that.

I believe Ruger wanted to approximate the weight and feel of the original Colt revolvers like the Italians have already. It's called market share and Ruger wants it. I like my original Vaquero even after having felt the New Vaquero.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero.htm

[jmort]

This is the best explanation

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazin...34_preview.pdf

[Wolfer]

I have never owned an old vaquero. I've always thought they felt good but we're just a bit heavy for constant field carry. I feel the same way about the super Blackhawks.
That these are strong well made guns is without question but I'm not interested in hot rod loads.
When Ruger introduced the new vaquero I ordered one immediately. Had it in my hands in about a year. I like it better than any handgun I own or have owned. When Lipseys announced the 44 spl on an old model 357 frame I jumped on it. I'm pretty fond of it also.

If you want your gun to be all that it can be then the super Blackhawks or old model vaquero is what you need. Myself I like a 250 ish boolit at around 950/1050 fps. The smaller guns work just fine for me.

[Outpost75]

I want to be able to use the same loads in rifle and revolver. The small New Vaquero and original Blackhawk grip frame is uncomfortable with heavy loads. The extra weight is no issue for me.

I don't shoot mouse fart loads, but most of my .44s are around 1000 fps, similar in energy to original blackpowder loads in the .45 Colt or. 44-40. These are adequate for most outdoor use. Firing such loads in the original Vaquero or the Super Blackhawk with steel XR3 grip frame is easily manageable, but unpleasant with the tiny Colt style grips.

[jmort]

I have owned both old and new Vaqueros, and I like the new Vaquero much more.

[EDK]

Differences of opinion is what makes horse races and elections.

I prefer the Original Size VAQUERO...in 44 magnum please. I further add a HUNTER or DRAGOON grip frame and SUPER BLACK HAWK hammer or choose a BISLEY. 44 Special brass was problematic at one time also.

FWIW a NIB stainless steel 44 magnum VAQUERO with 5.5 inch barrel just went for $650 on gunbroker; Similar pair went for $1200 awhile back. Used Original Size VAQUEROS, especially 44 magnum, are going for $500+. Somebody else must like them.

[Wolfer]

Yeah, when I got my new vaquero I figured the price on the old models would go down and I could pick up a bargain. I'm wrong so often I've gotten used to it.

[Dale53]

There are those that have a problem with the New Vaquero plow handle grip with the heavier loads. There is a solution. I found a number of new (old stock) Colt SAA Pachmayr grips online (just google them). They were reasonably priced (Pachmayr no longer offers these grips, I understand). They are not a perfect fit but they work very well. They TOTALLY solve the pain in shooting the SAA grip and allow you to shoot to your potential. If hitting what you aim at is more important than esthetics (as it is for me) than these may be for you. Here's a pair on my .44 Lipsey Special:



Dale53

[Tar Heel]

Bouncer50.....ultimately (unfortunately) these discussions always seem to devolve into a "mouse-fart load versus a howitzer load" issue. That is not why Ruger redesigned the Vaquero. The Vaquero was made to be a Colt "look alike" with more eye appeal to the cowboy action shooters. Ruger based it on an existing Blackhawk frame and simply rounded it off some to be more eye appealing to the CAS shooters and 45 Colt SAA aficionados.

Then years later to further appease the CAS crowd, Ruger redesigned the gun to be more of a Colt clone and gather lost market share which the Italians (Uberti) were dominating. Both guns are chambered in 45 Colt and it has NOTHING to do with hot rodding the 45 Colt.

It just so happens that the original Vaquero, being built on a Blackhawk frame, can actually withstand the loading data for the 45 Colt cartridge which was intended for T/C Contender and Ruger BLACKHAWK frames. These loads had higher chamber pressures than the original 45 Colt cartridge was designed for.

The New Vaquero, being built on a lighter redesigned frame, closely matching original Colt SAA frames, can NOT withstand 45 Colt loads developed specifically for the Ruger Blackhawk frame - of which the ORIGINAL Vaquero happens to be.

Ruger did NOT redesign the frame to accommodate high pressure or low pressure anything. They are both chambered in 45 Colt and designed for 45 Colt pressures. IT JUST SO HAPPENS that the original frame could handle higher chamber pressures that handloaders can work up.

It is a constant source of amusement to me, and I am sure to others, that these comparisons typically devolve into a "you can load a 9,374 grain bullet to 74,784.343 fps for 118 tons of energy to kill bunny wabbits with."

Both of the Ruger Vaqueros are built for and chambered for the 45 Colt load in its SAAMI specifications. It's a 45 Colt - not a howitzer. If you want to shoot a howitzer, make a call to SSK Industries and get a SSK Hand Cannon. J.D. Jones will fix you right up.

If you want a nice 45 Colt SAA look alike, Ruger can fix you right up with the New Vaquero chambered in 45 Colt. I have an original Vaquero and would like to get a New Vaquero but having an Uberti already to fit the 45 Colt SAA clone desire, I can't justify the expense. The newer Vaquero feels better and is a truer clone to the original Colt SAA.

It also is interesting to note that the original 45 Colt black powder loads, with a 250gr bullet atop 40 grains of black powder, are surprisingly powerful. In fact, they were too powerful for the US Army and led to the adoption of the .45 Schofield which was a reduced 45 load which most soldiers could handle better.

Elmer Keith, the "father of the 44 magnum", often told of his respect for the 45 Colt for its ability to stop a steer or horse when needed. Shooting the original BP loads will convince you of his reasons for that admiration. It is not a load for the timid. While there are certainly more powerful guns and loads out there, the 45 Colt in its original configuration is no mouse fart. The Action Shooter crowd shoots drastically reduced 45 Colt loads to "game" the event. Those loads do not compare ballistically to the original 45 Colt loads which, while not a howitzer, are nothing to scoff at.

Here is a pretty good video showing an original Vaquero shooting original 45 Colt black powder loads (250gr bullet, 40gr black powder).

[contender1]

Well put Tar Heel!

[paracordkydexcummins]

I would take one of the vaqueros with a birdshead grip like this for a carry gun defensive ammo is not loaded super hot and doesn't need to be in a cross draw rig it would look super nice
A 45 acp was originally designed to copy the 45 colt black powder load the army and FBI has reduced there guns power many times like 7.62 to 5.56, 45acp to 9mm and so on

[DougGuy]

Yep like TarHeel says, Ruger wanted to scale down the Vaquero to be more the size of the old Colt SAA, and to make it more appealing to the Cowboy Action shooters. I think they did a great job with the medium framed guns, and from what I have seen out of both generations of Vaqueros, the New Vaquero by far is a better fitted gun than the original Vaquero. Their cylinder throats (albeit 90% of them are too tightly dimensioned to shoot .452" cast boolits without sizing them down) are smoothly polished and much more consistent than the large framed models. The barrels are fitted better to the frames, the ones I have had in my shop have been surprisingly free of thread choke, and the roll mark is not nearly as deep so they don't have the distortion in the rifling behind the roll mark on the barrel. Two VERY important attributes that the old Vaquero was known to suffer from much more so than the New Vaquero.

I myself have a back burner project in the works, I plan to use a New Vaquero in .45 ACP and rechamber it in .45 Schofield, so that the Tier 2 pressure ceiling can be attained in a shorter case which would lend itself to more consistent performance than loading the full size .45 Colt to the 23,000psi pressure ceiling these guns are designed to operate within. My project will launch a 250 - 280gr boolit at just over supersonic, in the 1150 - 1180f/s velocity range, and operate very near the 23,000psi max.

Ruger gave us a FINE tier 2 capable revolver, but there really isn't much load data aimed at this niche in the .45 caliber guns, this project aims to take advantage of the refinements that Ruger gave us, and match it to an equally refined tier 2 level cartridge, the revisited and now modern day .45 Schofield.

[jmort]

^^^ This is an excellent post

[MakeMineA10mm]

It also is interesting to note that the original 45 Colt black powder loads, with a 250gr bullet atop 40 grains of black powder, are surprisingly powerful. In fact, they were too powerful for the US Army and led to the adoption of the .45 Schofield which was a reduced 45 load which most soldiers could handle better.

A 45 acp was originally designed to copy the 45 colt black powder load the army and FBI has reduced there guns power many times like 7.62 to 5.56, 45acp to 9mm and so on

Just a quick historical correction or two.

Tar Heel: The 45 Schofield load was adopted by the U.S. Army with the S&W Schofield #3, because the frame and cylinder on the #3 was shorter than that on the Colt, hence requiring the shorter cartridge. For a short period of time, the U.S. Army stocked both, but once the Quartermaster Corps realized the Schofield load would fit both guns, they standardized on that one load. It had everything to do with logistics and nothing to do with power.

paracord: The 45 Colt government load was a 250gr bullet & 40grs of black powder. The 45 A.C.P. was designed to emulate the final version of the 45 Schofield load with its 230gr bullet at 820 f.p.s.

[Char-Gar]

There seems to be a little confusion about the various Ruger frame sizes for their SA centerfire sixguns. Let me give a little over view as I remember it.

I will not be talking about the Single Six frame which original was 22 LR, but about the original centerfire frames.

1. First up was the Blackhawk in 357 Mag, introduced in 1955. This is the famous Flat Top. After a time some ears were added on top of the frame to protect the rear when elevated. Along the way, there was also a revamping of the grip from the X3 to the X3-RED. This original frame was very close in size, weight and internals to the Colt SA, except for the use of coiled springs.

2. Ruger actually beat Smith and Wesson into production (1956) with a 44 Magnum and this is the much sought after old model 44, which was built on a new larger frame with some differences in steel.

3. In the early 60's, Ruger produced the Super Blackhawk which utilized a new larger frame, different grips and some other changed. The extra steel in the SBH frame and cylinder provided weight, durability, longevity and for some were more comfortable to shoot. For some there were more uncomfortable to shoot. The squared back of the trigger guard was supposed to keep the trigger guard from abusing the knuckle, but it doesn't work that way for me.

4. These two frames, the Blackhawk and Super Blackhawk remain the two basic frames that Ruger uses today. There have been changed in sights, grip frames, triggers, hammers, barrel lengths, lockwork, calibers etc. but these two basic frame are all there is. OK, back to the story.

5. In due time the original Blackhawk was introduced in 45 Colt. It didn't take long for the word to get around that it was stronger (which it was), that the Colt, due to better steels etc. It also didn't take long for folks to take advantage of this and start jacking the pressure of their 45 Colt loads up. The result was these handguns started showing up at Ruger for repair.

6. No. 5 prompted Ruger to cease production of the Blackhawk and create the New Model Blackhawk which was just the old Super Blackhawk frame with a change in grips and a few other items. These larger framed revolvers could take the increased pressure loads and the game of hot rodding the 45 Colt was afoot.

7. In due time, Ruger produced a fix sighted version of the New Model Blackhawk and this became the original Vaquero. Again the frame size was the old Super Blackhawk/New Model Blackhawk.

8. Nostalgia set in and Ruger produced a Anniversary model of the original flat top Blackhawk on the original smaller frame in 357 magnum with the original grip. These proved quite popular.

9. Seeing the popularity and collector's status of original small frame Blackhawks and the new Anniversary model, plus the advent of Cowboy shooting, Ruger started to produce the New Vaquero on the original smaller. Blackhawk frame.

10. Lets not forget there was a change from the original Colt style lockwork, albeit with coiled springs to the new transfer bar lockwork which made it safe to carry the pistol with a loaded round under the hammer.

It has been quite a ride and I can see how folks get confused, but there really are only two frame sizes (Black Hawk and Super Blackhawk) that have morphed into various configuration. The New Vaquero and various Flat Tops are built on the original Blackhawk frame, albeit with new lawyer approved internal lockwork. The rest are built on the Super Blackhawk frame in various configurations with various names. Again, there are only two basic frames.

The above is very sketchy and brief and books can be written about all the ins and outs of these things. I am not a Ruger collector, but have been around and shooting for the entire life of the Ruger single action revolvers, payed attention and have not lost my mind...yet!

The Single Six, Bearcat and there evolution is quite another matter.

For reference here are two of my pistols, a 1963 Super Blackhawk and a 1964 Blackhawk. Both of the have had some modifications done by myself, but they are the two different Ruger frames in their old dress.

[Char-Gar]

Addendum: The recoil of the smaller frame has been mentioned as punishing. For me the cure is pretty simple and has two parts.

1. Use grips that have flat bottoms. See pic.

2. Curl the little finger under the bottom of the grip. This keep the rear of the trigger guard from barking the knuckle of the hand. It also assists in accurate shooting and the frame does not rest on the trigger fringer and make it easier to isolate the trigger finger so it does not contact the frame at any point.

[Tar Heel]

Let's please suffice it to say, for the OP and a new user, that the original Vaquero is a beefier frame and the New model Vaquero is a lighter frame. Both shoot the 45 Colt cartridge (in SAAMI Spec) quite well.

For Makeminea10mm.....agreed. I was attempting to simplify the situation. But we know the army has an affinity for the short & weak version......(40 S&W)...