Black Powder Comparision

[cajun shooter]

I just received a few cans of the Goex Olde Eynsford Powder in 2 and 3F grades. My first ever of this fairly new release from Goex. After reading so many positive postings and talking to shooters who had tested the powder, I thought it was time to check it out.
I did what I always do with any Black Powder that I've never used before and that is to observe it on a slide under my old time mirror microscope. I put a small amount of the 2F on one end and a small amount of my test standard, Goex Cartridge on the other end.
I saw right away why everyone has boasted of higher velocities. The 2F OE has grains of many different sizes with a light coating and sharp edges on the grains.
The Goex Cartridge has larger grains that are more rounded and the coating has a sheen to it, which makes it appear to have a heavier coating.
Being that BP grains burn from the outside in which is opposite of smokeless powder, if the grains are smaller with a light coating, it will burn faster and hotter than the Cartridge.
I have yet to look at the 3 F and will give a report on that later.
Take Care David

[Don McDowell]

David, you'll also see that the Eynsford 2f is smaller kernels than the Cartridge.

[John Boy]

I saw right away why everyone has boasted of higher velocities. The 2F OE has grains of many different sizes with a light coating and sharp edges on the grains.

David, here's some Sieve Ratio Percentages for Ole E where Goex uses smaller grains of powder compared to the standard grade ratios for specific powder grades

Olde E' sieve ratios for 1.5Fg and FFg ...

1.5Fg:
20 mesh - 98.163% Hold
30 mesh - 0.612% Hold
40 mesh - 0.000%
50 mesh - 1.224% Hold
60 mesh - Trace
80 mesh - Trace Passed
............99.999%

FFg:
20 mesh - 62.81% Hold
30 mesh - 32.32% Hold
40 mesh - 04.27% Hold
50 mesh - 00.60% Hold
60 mesh - Trace
............100%

Regular Goex FFg
20 mesh - 79.2% retained
30 mesh - 20.8% retained

Conclusion: Goex increased the smaller grains in Olde E' compared to their regular production grades. Goex FFg posted for reference. Here's the ratios for a couple of Cartridge lots for reference also

Goex Cartridge – (0542) 07MY04B - May 2004
20 mesh – 98.46% retained
30 mesh – 01.54% retained
Through – Trace

Goex Cartridge – (05-37) 02OC07B - Oct 2007 ... My favorite lot of CTG
12 mesh – 0.62% retained
14 mesh – 0.03% retained
20 mesh – 97.54% retained
30 mesh – 01.70% retained
Through – 0.11%

[Chill Wills]

John Boy, If it is easy - Can you re-post your mesh info for Swiss Powder into this thread for contrast?

I had a few sample cans of Olde Eynsford FF out of a case Chris Hodgdon sent to test last spring. I shot it a lot in a 45-70 and found both accuracy and velocity. I ran low and did not expand my experiments to my 40-60 Maynard that is soooooo accurate with Swiss powder. Nor did I shoot the Olde Eynsford in a match. I decided it was good enough powder to risk getting a case from Dave Gullo when I see him in March at the American Creedmoor Cup match and give it a full try.

The following logic applies to the hard core competitor - not so much to the plinker - hunter.
The reason I am so careful is buying a powder that is 75% percent the price of the gold standard, Swiss, is the false economy. That is, the less expensive powder better be every bit as accurate as the one it is replacing or you have saved nothing and wasted a lot in the process. You have wasted time, lead, primers, days off and gas and motel chasing off to not be able to shoot your best. Again, false economy.
Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Chill Wills, what I and others have found for the most part is when making the switch from Swiss to Eynsford, use the same F's but go up 2 grs in charge.
What I find with the Eynsford is how much easier the fouling is to deal with.

[Gunlaker]

Has anyone out there won a significant match using OE yet? I have just found a source for both Swiss and OE nearby and am in need of powder in the 1.5 to 2 granulation. Swiss would be the safe bet for me.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Wes Deams took some good postions in a couple of midrange matches and the Montana State sillouette match.
I got the high marksman/sharpshooter at the Rocky Mountain Regional, and the high marksman at the BPTR nationals.
There aren't a lot of folks shooting it seriously yet as most are hesitant to leave their proven loads. But I suspect if some of those in Expert and Master Class do ever twist off and go to shooting it, we'll hear a lot more about it.

[cajun shooter]

Don, You must have over read in my posting where I said the grains were smaller than the cartridge. Not a problem as I do the same thing at times.

[Chill Wills]

Chill Wills, what I and others have found for the most part is when making the switch from Swiss to Eynsford, use the same F's but go up 2 grs in charge. What I find with the Eynsford is how much easier the fouling is to deal with.

Don, I have burned most of three pounds of Olde Eynsford in 45-70 test loads. That is in the 250 rounds divided into 5 and 10 shot groups. Testing in my rifle did not show anything as simple as that. However, my ideas of what I am looking for often differs from the next guys. Admittedly, I probably have tunnel vision and closely held beliefs about what works for me but they are born out of success. In my not so humble experience; tuning a powder charge to a specific rifle often requires some balancing of the variables. That may be much harder with some brands of powder than others. Among the fine qualities of Swiss powder are the relative ease this can be done lot to lot. For me, that remains to be seen with Olde Eynsford let alone from Swiss to Olde Eynsford.

I will have a better idea after next summer.
all the best, Michael

[cajun shooter]

John Boy, I forgot to post my Goex Cartridge lot # but here it is 05 43 08SF19B

The lot of OE 2F is E2-03/13 AU06B

I have a set of screens but did not do that as I thought you had already addressed that. I didn't want to be redundant. I didn't know how many shooters had a microscope so I decided to go that way with my report. I have some Swiss 2F which I will look at today.

In the past when I have checked out the different powders and the grain shape, I've always found that Swiss powder is smaller than the Goex powders. I even wondered out loud on this forum some years back if anyone thought it may be due to the different systems of measure that is used. The Swiss has always been smaller and smoother than any other powder that I've compared it to. I used the Goex Cartridge because of my past use with it in the 45-70. Take Care David

[Don McDowell]

However, my ideas of what I am looking for often differs from the next guys. Admittedly, I probably have tunnel vision and closely held beliefs about what works for me but they are born out of success. In my not so humble experience; tuning a powder charge to a specific rifle often requires some balancing of the variables.

Micheal this is exactly my point in my response to Chris's question about anybody using it to win matches. You guys that have been in the grind and always are now at the top have done so with your favored load of Swiss, which arqueably WAS the best powder at the time. For you to change brands now requires a rework of your loads, which is time and components spent, that you may or may not really have or need to invest..
I have found OE awfully easy to work with, especially once I stumbled into compressing it about a 1/4 inch. Fouling control with the stuff seems to be enough different from other powders, that I think it may be a contributing factor to some folks not finding much luck with it..
If a person can shoot a 97 2x at 200 yds ( should of been a 100 but the shooter got to daydreaming about who was going to play the part in the movie about the great event about to happen before the gun went off....) with paper patched bullets with only a blowtube, or take down 7 straight sillouette pigs patched and only a blowtube...shows there's some real potential from the powder if Goex leaves the recipe alone, and if a good rifleman will give it an honest try with an open enough mind to believe what the target says, and make load adjustments as the target indicates..
Good luck in Phoenix next month.

[Don McDowell]

David my bad..

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Chip Mate, has been winning since last summer with Olde Eynsford varrious matches, after Steve watched me shooting it on practice day last year before the Cup.
KW

[Gunlaker]

Well that's good enough for me to try a case.

Chris.

[Don McDowell]

Good to hear Chip Mate has been shooting the stuff, course I think he's the sort of rifleman that could fill a cartridge with dirt and still come out in the top 5.....