Lee PrecisionStainLess Steel MediaGraf & SonsADvertise here
Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyInline Fabrication

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 59

Thread: Triple Seven fffg Catridge Catastrophe???

  1. #1

    Triple Seven fffg Catridge Catastrophe???

    There have been a number threads about whether to use Hodgdon's Triple Seven in catridge ammunition. I also understand that there is a factory warning about how this powder is used or not used.

    In my case, I am using the fffg version of Triple Seven in my .45 Colt handloads pushing a 265 grain boolit @ 900 FPS. I use this in my Uberti revolvers. I have had no problems with this combination.

    Question:
    Has anyone had problems using Triple Seven ffg or fffg in their cartridge ammunition? If so, please share the details.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Southern Shooter; 01-27-2015 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    pworley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,087
    I have used it in my .577 snider ammo with no issues.
    NRA Benefactor Member

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    Don't misunderstand I am not at all trying to be a BP purist but once again I have to ask, when it comes to the subs WHY? If you don't want to use real BP, and I understand there may be several good reasons for why you can't or don't want to, then why not just use an appropriate smokeless BP equivalent load and avoid all the hassles? After all shooting one of the subs is just as different from shooting BP as shooting smokeless so why bother? It looks, loads, shoots and even smells different and is in no way "authentic" so I just fail to see the point since it is neither smokeless nor BP and is not like shooting either, it's just a third kind of way to load and shoot. However that's just me and the stuff does go bang just fine even if it is dirty and corrosive so if you like shooting it then I am not trying to say you shouldn't but rather I just have to wonder what's the point?

  4. #4
    Why use Triple Seven? Because it was available. It was not an issue of wanting authenticity. I just wanted to shoot!! When the drought of powders was in full swing creativity had to be used. And, the store near my home came into a load of Triple Seven and I bought 4 lbs. of it to experiment with.
    Last edited by Southern Shooter; 01-27-2015 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Ohio
    Posts
    8,104
    Southern Shooter;
    Here is Hodgdon's warning about using Triple Seven in cartridges. NOTE: That they state only 2F should be used in cartridges:

    Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below.

    I would suggest that you call Hodgdon on the phone and ask specific questions of them regarding your intended loading method. I have found them very helpful when I have called.

    FWIW
    Dale53

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,328
    I have used T7 in quite a few cartridge guns with no problems. Always straightwall ones though, never tried it in bottlenecks. To reply to Oldred, I suppose the answer is varied depending on who you are talking to, but I tried it because I wanted to see what would happen. The subs do have one advantage and that is reloading with them is very simple since you don't really need load data or a scale. Fill the case up to the base of the bullet, put one on top of the powder, and go shoot. A long time ago Elmer Keith recommended everyone who gets into reloading do so with black powder at first since it is so simple and you can't overload it. The sub powders are the same now. I also only ever use real black powder any more, but the fake ones will propel a bullet down range and let you shoot your gun and that's what it's all about isn't it?

    -Nobade

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    The "can't overload" angle does have merit but then that can be said of several smokeless choices in some cartridges, having never loaded 45 Colt I can't say if it would be true for it or not. Just being able to dump the powder in an go would definitely simplify things but then it would seem that the extra attention to detail after shooting would off-set that advantage, of course if neither BP nor an appropriate smokeless is available then it would make all kinds of sense. Still unless there just isn't anything else to be had it just seems like it's a lot of bother to shoot something that's so different than either of the options.

    Like I said I am NOT telling anyone they shouldn't shoot waht they want to shoot nor am I trying to push my point of view on anyone else, I think what I am asking is a legitimate question and there's no reason for anyone to take offense.

  8. #8
    No offense taken. I look at like this, also...I have Blue Dot, HS-6, Unique, Bullseye, W231, Titegroup, Trail Boss, HP-38...all of which will work just fine in my .45 Colts. And, yes, some of these are a little more accurate than Triple Seven. But, because Triple Seven also functions fine in my guns and provides fair accuracy...heck, shoot it up. And, I don't see all the fuss about cleaning up after using it. Seems like a simple job and takes very little time. And, as for corrosion, there have been a few comments here and there, on-line. But, there has been no huge amount of evidence delivered that tells me this powder is bad for my guns. I mean, I have seen more guns rust from folks leaving them wet in the truck after a hunt than I have from using this powder.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    Well I suppose I would shoot it before tossing it out, that wouldn't make much sense! I think what started me thinking about this was a post on this forum a couple of years ago and a very similar post about the same time on another site, neither of which I replied to. The one here was when someone was asking about a particular gun/caliber and a reply said "for the BP experience load up some pyrodex (or whatever I honestly don't remember) and cast bullets". I could not help but think how in the world is doing that the "BP experience"? I mean when you look at it none of the subs are very much like BP with them having almost nothing in common, sure they can be used in (most) firearms designed for BP and they go bang and make smoke but it pretty much ends there. The "smoke" is there but even it's way different and is not even close to the same. These powders do not load the same as BP, they fill the cases but the requirements as to compression, etc are different, they have different pressures/velocities and they even look and smell different. They are however similar to BP for fowling, corrosion and cleaning requirements, some better some worse for each example, while being different in most other respects. Choosing an appropriate smokeless (or much better yet real BP if available!) eliminates the undesirable attributes of the subs yet still allows shooting at BP pressures and velocities and is really very little different than the subs to real BP with the exception of phony smoke. Again I am not saying don't shoot the subs if you want to I am just discussing the pros and cons of choosing a sub vs a smokeless if BP can not be the first choice for whatever reason. The bottom line is to have fun with whatever we choose to shoot and maybe discussing these points might make it better for someone.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



    Tar Heel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    874
    Good points SS. Use it if you have it. The shortages of the last few years have made us all experimenters to some extent. You can see it in the threads here asking about not so common propellants in common cartridges. I have hit the manuals looking to see if any loads exists for xxx powder in the yyy caliber. Fortunately with a library collected over 40 years, one can usually find something obscure or ask the gray-beards on here.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Tar Heel View Post
    Good points SS. Use it if you have it.

    Agreed and I never suggested otherwise, when there was nothing but a clean spot on the shelf where powder once was sitting for sale then ANYTHING that would safely go bang made sense! I have asked this question several times and every time there have been reasons offered as to why a person shoots one of the subs, some good reasons and some not so good, but the question is not why a sub but rather why not just use a suitable smokeless load instead and avoid the hassle of the subs? There are many good reasons to shoot real BP, heck even the nostalgia thing is more than enough reason, but almost none of the reasons for choosing BP over smokeless apply to a sub except in an instance where smokeless is not safe due to the gun design, ML, C&B, etc.

  12. #12
    In Remembrance
    montana_charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    West of Great Falls, Montana
    Posts
    8,425
    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    Well I suppose I would shoot it before tossing it out,
    Quote Originally Posted by Tar Heel View Post
    Good points SS. Use it if you have it.
    You two may have forgotten that the author wants information about using a granulation which is specifically warned against by the powder manufacturer.
    While your advice is 'friendly', it may also be 'dangerous'.
    Retired...TWICE. Now just raisin' cows and livin' on borrowed time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master



    Tar Heel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    874
    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie View Post
    You two may have forgotten that the author wants information about using a granulation which is specifically warned against by the powder manufacturer.
    While your advice is 'friendly', it may also be 'dangerous'.
    Montana...thanks for the heads up. My comments are general in nature and do not reference specific propellants. Always pays to be safe however so thanks for the oversight.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    Quote Originally Posted by montana_charlie View Post
    You two may have forgotten that the author wants information about using a granulation which is specifically warned against by the powder manufacturer.
    While your advice is 'friendly', it may also be 'dangerous'.

    Good point, it just goes to show that the subs are not always a safe alternative! Of course the wrong BP granulation could also be a problem, maybe anyway, but I think in that case one would probably have to go to 4F priming powder to create a bad situation and even then I don't know for sure how much of a problem it might be? Still you're 100% right and my statement that "I suppose I would shoot it before throwing it out" was not well thought out and in that case with it being the wrong powder for the job it would appear that tossing it out would be the better choice!

  15. #15
    Black Powder 100%


    cajun shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Livingston, La. 20 miles east of Baton Rouge, La.
    Posts
    4,375
    I have ordered and received BP any time I needed some. There was not a BP shortage while the smokeless and 22LR ammo thing was and is still going on.
    If a person desires to shoot the real BP and has something other than a PO box address to deliver to, Several BP distributors will have it sent to your front door. It is actually much easier than shooting the other kind of powder.
    The OP has tried to do something that the makers of the product has told him not to do, but he continued to press the issue. Later David
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NE Oklahoma
    Posts
    33
    I had no problems with the 50-60 rounds I tried (35 gr. under a Lee 452-200-RFP as cast and tumble lubed with 45-45-10) in a Ruger Old Army with a Howell conversion cylinder.
    I just got off the phone with Mike @ Hodgdon. The reason they do not list Triple Seven FFFg for cartridge loads is pressure. He said the smaller granulated FFFg generates higher pressures and could crack cases. I then ask him about the black powder (goexpowder.com) data wherein they also list FFg only for 45 Colt pistols and revolvers. He said the lower pressure generated by black powder would allow either FFg or FFFg to be used in 45 Colt cartridge loads.
    I guess it is a personal decision. I am brand new at this cap and ball/conversion shooting and I am trying to gather in all the know how I can.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master greywuuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    462
    "I have ordered and received BP any time I needed some. There was not a BP shortage while the smokeless and 22LR ammo thing was and is still going on."

    well that is also a problem for some of us. REAL P is classed as an explosive by ATF and requires separate storage and shipping rules. My local gun shops do NOT carry real black, AND being that I am in Alaska I can NOT get BP shipped to me ( ok I can but I pay two hazmat fee's and a freight charge of about $130 for ANY amount up to 300 pounds or one pallet )

    SO I can get real BP for about $180/ lb Or I can buy the Subs off the shelf for about $20 .... and they never ran out even during the powder shortage ( which to a large extent is still going on )

    that is one of the reasons I shoot subs in my front stuffers and in BPC

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,180
    There are several reasons for shooting subs in a ML for a lot of folks since that's the only practical option when, as in your case BP is simply not an option, but as I have asked several times in the past for BPC shooting why not just substitute a suitable smokeless? For most, but maybe not all, cartridges it would seem that if real BP is not available then a suitable smokeless would be the lesser of the available evils? I have asked this question several times and gotten good answers, some not so good and others seem to dodge the question, not at all saying a person should not shoot one of the subs or anything else that he/she likes but I am honestly just curious. I shoot a 45-90 HighWall style rifle and while I have become quite fond of real BP I can not see any reason to shoot any of the subs when I don't shoot BP, there are smokeless loads that are equal to or lower pressure than real BP and some of these slower powders are bulky enough for a good case fill and give pretty good accuracy. I am not trying to plug smokeless here! Just pointing out that IF real BP is not to be used it just makes more sense to me to use a suitable smokeless as a sub rather than deal with the hassles of the real subs.


    If there is an exception it would be Black Horn 209, that stuff works great! BUT, IMHO it's really just a very bulky smokeless powder and is based on smokeless technology. Other than it's bulk and a bit of fake smoke it is far more akin to loading smokeless than any of the subs are to real BP. But then there is the cost of the dang stuff!!!!

  19. #19
    Boolit Master greywuuf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    462
    currently I can get 50bmg in 8 pound jugs and Steel.... of the three BP subs make the most sense.... plus smokeless in my side lock front stuffer is pretty much a non starter.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    4,915
    Buffalo Arms says they're now shipping blackpowder to Alaska.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check