H&G Bullets Wanted, Site Donation

[ssnow]

Hi Guys, I could use some help.

I would like to have some bullet samples cast from original Hensley & Gibbs molds. I'm asking for 10 bullets, along with a description of all mold markings (or a photo of the mold) and the alloy used. The bullets need to be as-cast, no sizing or lube.

I have several reasons for wanting the samples; First, I have a few reproduction molds ordered, and I would like to have original bullets to determine how close the new molds are to the originals.

Others I would like to have on hand to determine if I want to order a reproduction or possibly find an original, to be able to load a few dummies.

Then there are historical aspects. I simply like H&G, and find their history interesting. For example; When we say H&G 68, we think of it as one design, set in stone that never changed. However, the mold did evolve over the years. I had an earlier 68PB, and now have a later BB design. The newer design has a smaller meplat, it differs significantly from the early PB version. This is why I want a mold marking description or photo, to help make a better guess as to the timeframe in which the mold was produced.

So here is the deal; If you are willing to provide me with the requested bullets, I will work out compensation details with you on a case by case basis via Private Messaging.

OR, for anyone willing to help me on this project, I will make a 20 dollar site donation on your behalf to Number 1 (site owner) to help continue his good works. With your help, it could add up to a nice donation.

These are the molds I'm interested in;

The Keith Bullets.....Mold numbers 43, 258, 503, 501

9mm Bullets.....Mold numbers 275, 310, 309

38/357 Bullets....Mold numbers 334, 392, 39

40 Cal Bullets......Mold numbers 332, 359

44Mag Bullets.....Mold number 341

45 ACP Bullets.....Mold numbers 34, 130

45 Colt Bullets....Mold number 387

Ok, those are the mold numbers I'm currently interested in. However, if you have a different H&G mold of a similar bullet, then lets talk about it. For example, if a full length Keith bullet won't fit your revolver so you use a different bullet, which one and how do you like it? That sort of thing

[frnkeore]

I only have the 20 (only Hensely S.D. ), 22 and 51GC

Frank

[ssnow]

Hi Frank, Thanks for responding to my thread. I am interested in all things H&G, so PM sent Thanks

[Texasflyboy]

"For example; When we say H&G 68, we think of it as one design, set in stone that never changed. However, the mold did evolve over the years."

In context, your journey will lead you right back to this simple statement. In context, George Hensley and his brothers began making moulds in the 1930's in their backyard of their San Diego Farm home. They didn't have ISO 9000 standards, nor even a draftsman. Most of their early designs were probably sketched out on butcher paper, actual butcher paper from the town meat market. Cherries were designed, fabricated, heat treated, and used by hand until they wore out. Each person likely contributed some variable to the cherry design as they "remembered" it.

The value in the Hensley & Gibbs moulds has always been the repeatability of multiple cavity moulds, each cavity throwing an almost identical weight, from 2 cavity all the way up to 10 cavity. Not in the repeatability of the design itself.

You are correct that #68 evolved over the years. It evolved because at first George Hensley was probably the guy making the cherry, then James Gibbs, then later his son, Wayne. In addition to others.

Years ago when I asked Wayne Gibbs if they had "production drawings" of their designs he said "Yeah. What you see in the catalog and my bullet board (pictured at the Hensley & Gibbs website). That's how he kept track of a "design." He had the actual samples mounted on a board.

That's how they rolled from 1930 to 19xx.

[ssnow]

Greetings Texasflyboy,

Let me take this opportunity to say THANK YOU, for all the work you have done with your H&G site, and for making this information available to us. I use your reference site all the time, looking up mold numbers and photographs. (it's actually pulled up as another tab on my screen as I type this ) I really appreciate it, and respect that you are doing this work to preserve the unique and grand history of H&G.

From my experience, I agree with what you have said concerning uniformity of cavities per mold vs. uniformity of design. But I would add, that throughout the evolution of the molds, they knew what worked, and were unwilling to take shortcuts with that.

For example, The 68 really set the standard by which all others were judged. Just about every custom mold maker offers some sort of clone of this mold. Some are closer than others.

I see lots of them with a flat nose and a sharp radius leading into it. They do this to minimize design and mostly machine run time. The bullets shoot okay, but they do not feed as well as the original, and some are not nearly as accurate. H&G evolved, but they kept what worked, small details that so many mold makers today don't care about.

My interest, is much like yours, in that I want to preserve the history.......I want the designs to be as historically correct as is possible.....of course, I also have an ugly personal profit motivation also, as I would like to be make a bullet someday

I have a 68 auto-cast mold that I will give you for your collection if you need one. (But I need to keep it until the new mold arrives) Should this thread (or my other H&G collection activities) generate any samples from molds you don't have photos for, I will pass those on to you, provided the contributor agrees to my doing so.

Thanks again, for all your work preserving the H&G history.

[fecmech]

I have a matched pair of 4 cav #39's but it will be a week -10 days before I can cast. PM me your snail mail addy and I'll send you some bullets.

[ssnow]

I have a matched pair of 4 cav #39's but it will be a week -10 days before I can cast. PM me your snail mail addy and I'll send you some bullets.

Thanks to Fecmech and Sagamore-one for sending some samples. Fecmech has sent # 39, and Sagamore-one has sent the #107. Here is a picture;



Thanks Guys, I appreciate the help. I'll get a donation mailed on your behalf this week.

A few other members will be adding to the list soon, but all this snow and bad weather in general has really put a damper on our casting activities. Don't know about you guys, but I am ready for spring

At this point, the one sample I am most anxious to acquire is the #258, the Keith bullet for the 41 Mag. Can anyone help me with a 258 sample?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've posted these photo's before.

This is the only one I have.
That Nose is .350
She's an early one, and is one of my best casting molds.

[MBTcustom]

I have a H&G mold that drops two 34s and two 68s every time I open it.
Would that be of help to you?

[ssnow]

JonB, that's an interesting bullet, I have not seen it before. That being the case, I'd certainly like a sample for my collection. I don't see that mold on TexasFlyBoy's site, he may be interested in that picture.

Goodsteel, that's a nice mold, both of the iconic 45 bullets in one mold. I have a 68, but would like samples of the 34.

Thanks for responding guys, I appreciate the help. I'll send a PM with a mailing address.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I responded to your PM and will be sending 10 samples (as dropped).
I have discussed this mold and shared photos with TexasFlyBoy in the past.

[ssnow]

Guess I'll run this thread up the flag pole one more time

Thanks to JonB and Goodsteel for sending samples. I appreciate your help.

I'm still looking for samples from the Keith molds, numbers 258, 43, and 501. Does Anyone have any of these molds? I'm really just looking for some sample bullets, but I would also buy any of these molds if anyone has one they are willing to part with.

[skeettx]

You live next door to Amarillo, come on over



Mike

[ssnow]

That's a very nice collection Mike. Congratulations on finding all those!!!!

Have you seen the NIB 503 4 cavity on E-bay right now?......It's quite the find. But I'm sure it's going to go way over my budget

[skeettx]

ssnow, you should have a flat rate priority mail package at your house this evening
Enjoy
Mike

[ssnow]

Awesome Skeettx!!! Just what I was needing. Thank You very much!!!

[skeettx]

You are welcome
I really enjoyed our conversation last evening
Mike