Head Scratcher

[18Bravo]

Finally had a chance to hit the range yesterday to try out my new PC boolits. I packed up two 1911 Govt's, a 45ACP and a 9mm. Both weapons operated flawlessly for the first 30 or so rounds until I ran into a problem. After that point both guns had an intermittent failure to completely go into battery. While the rounds would feed from the magazine they wouldn't completely seat. This happened numerous times. I had a partial box of non-PC rounds with the same boolits that shot without any problems. This leads me to believe that I may be doing something wrong in my PC process. Here's some basic info.

Both 1911's are traditional non-ramped barrels and cleaned before use.

The molds are Lee's 230TC TL and Lee's 124TC TL. Have used both before without feed issues.

Powder was 4.9gr TightGroup for the 45 and 5.7gr A#5 for the 9mm.

The PC paint was Federal Standard 383 flat green (0% to 5% gloss).

Applied with HF PC gun and baked for 10 min. at 400 degrees per instructions.

Boolits were sized .451 and .356 before and after PC.

All rounds were resized in a Lee Crimp and size die.

Leading in the barrels was a non-issue, however, the feed ramps of both 1911's seemed dirtier than I remember(?)

Any insight into what I may be doing wrong would be appreciated.

18Bravo

[Love Life]

Hmmm. Did you see a lead ring in the chamber or build up of some sort?

[Yodogsandman]

My guess would be PC coating being shaved off when seating into battery.

Did your PC cure time begin after the oven was up to temp or just total time?

[18Bravo]

Love Life,

No, the chamber was clean except for the usual powder residual.

Yodogsandman,

The oven was preheated to the recommended temperature before baking. I do notice that there is a fluctuation in temperature that occurs. My thermometer showing 375 to 410 as the heating elements kick on and off.

[dilly]

I think what happened is that your bullets are oversized out farther along the nose. The sizer does not size the nose down back to within normal dimensions when you add powder coat along the entire surface area. Maybe I'm not understanding the problem correctly, but sometimes this is the trouble.

[redriverhunter]

I have had a similar problem with powder coated bullets. A springfield xd 9mm, the bullet is a mp 359 125gn, powder coated with powder by the pound traffic grey B. The bullets were powder coated then baked then sized in a lee sizer to .355. I forget how many rounds went threw but then the bullet would not go in far enough to allow the firearm to operate. A hard hit to the slide and they would fire.
thought my bullets were seated too far out, nope not the problem. What I found most interesting was a round that would not work, would work after a jacketed round was fired this was good for about 4 to 7 round then the same. I did not find any build up an cleaning of the firearm did help but was short lived. I blame the powder and or my loading method.

[Smoke4320]

"Applied with HF PC gun and baked for 10 min. at 400 degrees per instructions." "My thermometer showing 375 to 410 as the heating elements kick on and off."

first thing I would do is increase the cure time to at least 15 minutes to make up for the drop/fluctuation in oven temp..I had some issues in the beginning with oven temps as well. When I went to 16 Minutes most all issues disappeared

My thinking is at the gun warmed up and the PC just not cured all the way you developed some drag.. which caused the not complete seating.. Now this is a WAG
one only proved/disproved with some testing

[18Bravo]

dilly,
that was my initial though also. Just don't know what to adjust to correct if that is the issue.

redriverhunter,
You described my exact issue! Run a non-PC round through the gun and the problem will solve itself for another magazine of PC. I don't usually use A#5 for 9mm's but with the limited selection of powders these days I gave it a try. However Titegroup is one of my go to powders for 45,s and I've not any issue to date with powder or OAL. What did you do to correct your problem?

Smoke,
Good advice. I'll try a longer bake time of 16 minutes.

Thanks all!

[Handloader109]

Did you do plunk test of this ammo? I'd bet you have added just enough diameter for the round to be too long.

[practical_man]

I think what happened is that your bullets are oversized out farther along the nose. The sizer does not size the nose down back to within normal dimensions when you add powder coat along the entire surface area. Maybe I'm not understanding the problem correctly, but sometimes this is the trouble.

18B
this is most likely the issue. I have had it happen with specific bullet noses, esp round flat style. It is common among competition shooters with short throated pistols. CZ is notorious.

If if the bullets shoot well, I ream the barrel throat to fit.

The PC is probably enlarging the nose a bit. The barrel expands a bit when it heats and the tolerance stacking gives you a slight interference fit.

Try a more tapered bullet nose

[dilly]

practical man stated one of the solutions. Rather than modify the barrel I would go at it from the other direction and get a mold that is not so wide at the nose. Pick your poison.

[18Bravo]

Everyone,
Lots of good information and feedback...THANK YOU! You've given me plenty to think about. Being brand new to PC I am most definitely in the "learn as you go" stage. As many of you have mentioned the flat color, thicker paint on the un-sized nose, combined with the shape of the boolit could be the issue. Taking all comments and suggestions I've decided on the following action to correct my feed problems.

First of all, for semi-autos, I'm going to try round nose instead of truncated cones with particular attention paid to AOL.

Secondly, instead of a flat paint I'm inclined to try something with a much higher gloss content. Maybe shinier equals slipperier?

Thirdly, to overcome the ovens fluctuation at higher temperatures, I'm going to try some paints that have a lower cure temperature. RAL paints bake at 340 degrees for 10 minutes (I will take Smokes advice and cook longer) and have a 90% to 100% gloss finish.

I'll use the existing paint on revolver and lever loads. Can't imagine any problems. After all, I still have a few pounds of already paid for paint to use up!

[HATCH]

wouldn't it just be easier to sit the boolit slightly deeper in the case?

[18Bravo]

wouldn't it just be easier to sit the boolit slightly deeper in the case?

Shame on me for not mentioning this earlier. The 9mm was set back from my normal 1.15 to 1.10. The 45 was also set back, but being at work, I don't remember exactly how much. Thanks for the though. It certainly was one of my first concerns.

[TreeKiller]

I had to size the Lee RB 9mm through a .356fron .357 die after PC to get them to go through a Wilson CTG gage. Have a CZ that no matter how short i made the rounds they would not chamber. I have not loaded any yet but a test round will go in the Wilson Gage.

[dilly]

In the instances I've come upon this problem I've had to set the bullet WAY back before it would chamber. Too far back, in my opinion. I personally think chamber reaming or changing molds is probably a better choice.

[Love Life]

My coated bullets with RN profile. While it is not PC, the build up amount is about the same. You really have to watch nose profiles with the coatings as that added diameter may make a good load with necked bullets a no go with coated bullets.

[Blanco]

I think what you are experiencing is a barrel issue. As someone pointed out the issue of tight chambers on CZ pistols. I have seen feed issues on some of the Turkish pistols also. The same rounds that stick in those guns work just fine in a Sig and Beretta.

[18Bravo]

I think what you are experiencing is a barrel issue. As someone pointed out the issue of tight chambers on CZ pistols. I have seen feed issues on some of the Turkish pistols also. The same rounds that stick in those guns work just fine in a Sig and Beretta.

Blanco,
I agree. My CZ's and Tanfolgio Match all have tight chambers. I haven't tried PC boolits in any of them yet so not sure what I will run into. The failure to go into battery is with two 1911 Gov'ts which are generally forgiving when it comes to chambers. Keep in mind that both operated without issue for the first 30 or so rounds.

[Blanco]

The only thing that come to mind is possibly that the bullets are not crimped enough and are hitting the ramp on chambering.

That in turn is flaring the brass? .....not sure .
I do know that my Beretta will shoot rounds that jam up other pistols and it has a pretty loose chamber?
Either something you are doing when you are loading or the pistol is doing to the ammo is causing an issue.
Sometimes the most unexplainable things have the most simple solution