Dumb Question on PP direction

[BrentD]

Keith, I know Larry and we correspond from time to time.

Thanks for the links to the Euro websites. Looks like they are the guys. The long range muzzleloading game is a hoot and a half, but there are very few folks that shoot it and also shoot BPTR long range with cartridge guns. I don't know why. I'm polishing up my long range muzzleloader right now for a trip to Oak Ridge in about 3-4 weeks.

[BrentD]

This is a very good paper that rolls well when dry. It is a bit thinner than what I'm set up to run and is probably very nearly identical to the Seth Cole paper.

http://www.amazon.com/Sketch-Paper-R...+tracing+paper

[Don McDowell]

Was thinking about PP the Lee 45 cal minie to use in the 45/70. Was wondering if it has too much of a skirt? Hate to have it blow off in a barrel!

I doubt you'ld blow the skirt off the diameter is likely to be well over bore diameter of the 45-70, before you patch it.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Brent I am wondering what bullet diameter you are running these days, and the above paper does look very similar to the Seth Cole paper. Also wondering if you still running that prolate design and what alloy? I understand you were using it at Lodi.
KW

[BrentD]

Yes, I'm using the same bullet, the same 16:1 and the same paper (Eaton 9#). The bullet is .443-.444" depending on how I hold my tongue when I measure it. I have two bullets with identical noses. on is 1.46" and 514 gr the other 1.52" and weights 537 gr. The former is used in an 18" twist highwall and the other in a 16 twist M77.

[Keith Andersen]

Brent

That sounds like a vellum paper, is it?
I don't like using a paper that don't let water soak through it. Translucent paper is ok when you carry some rounds in your pocket hunting where snow can drop in and gets the patch wet but for the matches I want paper that lets a drop of water soak through. This is for the ML slug guns and cartridge rifles.

This is a very good paper that rolls well when dry. It is a bit thinner than what I'm set up to run and is probably very nearly identical to the Seth Cole paper.

http://www.amazon.com/Sketch-Paper-R...+tracing+paper

[BrentD]

No it is not what I would call velum, and it is not labeled as such. it will get wet easily. It should be an excellent match grade paper for people shooting bullets up in the .445ish range of diameters. maybe .444". It will soak.

I will probably be using it in my rifle at the Oak Ridge muzzleloading match in March. Will you be there?

My long range muzzleloader is a bit tight (Pope rifled, Hoyt barrel), so it might be ideal with my bullets which are a bit too big with my normal paper and I have to size them down slightly. This paper may be perfect just as it is.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Thanks Brent, for sharing, that info. I gota say that bullet has served you well at Lodi, what were you using at Phoenix? The 537 or 514?


KW

[Keith Andersen]

No I don't shoot the slug or the over the log guns anymore. I'm just contend sitting under the Oak trees anymore with a .32 caliber over my lap taking naps where else can you do that and have a squirrel come up to you wondering what ole whiskers is doing there

[Gunlaker]

That is a good video Brent. I first saw it a year or two ago and have watched it more than a few times since. I've been playing with dry wrapping some bullets recently. I've had a difficult time so far with keeping the patches tight with the Seth Cole paper. I think my bullets are just too smooth . A year or two ago I bought a pad of Canson tracing paper that is 0.002" thick and dry wraps very well. After dry wrapping I can slip the bullet out of the patch, and the patch stays tightly rolled up. The paper is unlike Seth Cole as it's less water permeable. I will probably shoot a target with this paper next week to see if it works well.

[ryan28]

I use the seth cole paper, and with the length I cut the patches to, I need to roll them real tight to get the edges to line up. I roll them dry, but dip the bases on a damp sponge, then dry on a coffee warmer.
They stick on good.

[BrentD]

Thanks Brent, for sharing, that info. I gota say that bullet has served you well at Lodi, what were you using at Phoenix? The 537 or 514?


KW

I assume you mean the last time I was in Phoenix. I believe that was March 2011. All remember was a whole lot of mirage and misery brought on by Typhoid Terry. So, I had to pull my books and look- as it turned out, My books didn't make it to Phoenix that hear and I had to call home for sight settings. So, I don't have direct records of that match if that is the correct year.

Anyway, prior to that match I had been shooting a prototype of the Prolates I shoot now. It was 504 grs. I almost certainly was shooting it then. My highwall had not been finished at that time, so I had to be shooting the M77. But my notes show that rifle went to the local range for the first testing of the barrel that it has now in midApril of 2011, so in March, it would have been shooting an 18 twist Badger barrel that did not shoot worth a ****. Actually, it was more the rifle's fault because Axtell had barreled crookeder than a politician's banker. It never shot well until Al rebarreled it right after that match. I think he took it back to San Diego with him after that match actually.

Al has that bullet now. Last month, he shot his first NRA registered silhouette match with it. It was his first paper patch silhouette match and he won it all. I believe that makes him the second person to win an NRA BPCR match with paper patches, and he did it on his first try.

[brstevns]

That is a good video Brent. I first saw it a year or two ago and have watched it more than a few times since. I've been playing with dry wrapping some bullets recently. I've had a difficult time so far with keeping the patches tight with the Seth Cole paper. I think my bullets are just too smooth . A year or two ago I bought a pad of Canson tracing paper that is 0.002" thick and dry wraps very well. After dry wrapping I can slip the bullet out of the patch, and the patch stays tightly rolled up. The paper is unlike Seth Cole as it's less water permeable. I will probably shoot a target with this paper next week to see if it works well.

So it is alright that the bullet can be slip from the paper? I always thought it had to be tight enough not to slip?

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Yes I believe it was 2011, thanks for the info.
Well I recall you had some hard times, sounds like you figured out what was the issue.

KW

[Keith Andersen]

Silhouette matches are lost and won on the chicken line.
The paper patch has gained popularity by just a hand full of shooters like Brent that has used them for matches longer then anyone that I have read about since these computers came by. And there are a hand full also not so popular in the shootin match circuits that just shoot the local shoots or I guess some call them rock busters that just compete against them self that I have met at the gong shoots that would fare well at the Nationals if they would just shoot them. But some of those that I have met say that they get turned off by the way they get jawed at by so called top shooters.

[Don McDowell]

But some of those that I have met say that they get turned off by the way they get jawed at by so called top shooters.

Yes you hear that quite abit, but the best I can tell someone when they say that, is it's darn seldom you run into a jerkoff at a match. Some folks don't come across well in the typed word on the computer. By and large the "top" shooters are just good folks to be around.
Folks just need to muster up and go to a match if possible.

[BrentD]

That be true, one does get jawed at by the "top" shooters, or "formerly known as top shooters" in some cases.

But most of the naysayers are just internet legends and anything but "top shooters".

And some of the naysayers are now the biggest advocates. Including at least one on this thread.

Still very few shoot them and in the silhouette game, almost no one does. I have been the only paper patch guy at Raton in silhouette for most of the years I've been shooting there. Jim Sproul did once or twice and Bob Englebach (pardon my mispelling if I got wrong). Other than those two, I don't remember another, and none in the last three years.

[Keith Andersen]

Just go on the Shiloh forum sometimes. You will see what the top shooters say. You better have your flack jacket and steel pot on if you post a question.
A lot of good guys quit posting because of the **** there.
There used to be a lot of good information to be gained there, but their knowledge has gone elsewhere or just shut down.

[Don McDowell]

Oh I've seen it there, used to see it on bpcr.net, and I see it here. But I have not seen it at any of the NRA bptr matches, none of the 22 bpcr matches or the single sillouette match I have attended. Don't really even see it at the gong matches much.
I think a lot of folks don't post much anymore because they just don't have much to say, or the questions being asked are just the same stuff that's been gone over and over again. How many times does the question "what's the best 45xx brass" need to be answered?

[BrentD]

Just go on the Shiloh forum sometimes. You will see what the top shooters say. You better have your flack jacket and steel pot on if you post a question.
A lot of good guys quit posting because of the **** there.
There used to be a lot of good information to be gained there, but their knowledge has gone elsewhere or just shut down.

There are no top shooters there. And for EXACTLY the reasons you suggest.