Dumb Question on PP direction

[cajun shooter]

Brent D, As I stated in my posting, I've never competed in a NRA sanctioned match in BPCR rifle. I'm 67 years of age and have been in the shooting sports all my life. I'm a former Police Firearms Instructor that was trained by the FBI. I also have been to at least 8 Armorer schools. I started casting in 1970 and was then involved in handgun shooting. That is when I shot my first BP gun also. After going through the FBI Sniper School I became interested in long range rifle. I started to enter a shooting club and had some medical problems arise that kept me from shooting.
I then read the books by Mike Venturino and got the BPCR bug. My wife and I were living on a limited income so my first rifle was a Pedersoli 74 Sharps in 45-70. I was from the very first shot, hooked.
I came to this forum in 2008 after lurking awhile. I read the postings by KW, and Don and all the other shooters, whom I did not know. KW and Don both gave me a lot of help along the way. I was already to enter competition when I had a accident that disabled me. I could not shoot the positions because of the 4 bad disc in my back and found that I could shoot my BP in SASS matches. I did that for four years until my back put me down and house bound for the next 2 1/2 years.
Don McDowell never bragged or told me that he won the overall match and it was my wording that was used in my posting. I have never shot a BPCR Match but at the age of 67 I've met both good and bad people especially with my 15 years as a street cop. To belittle someone because of another persons misuse and misunderstanding of the rules is uncalled for.
Don is a first class man and I will stand with him at anyplace and any time. He and KW both have been there every time I needed help. His words to me was that he won his class at a shoot using PP bullets with a few greasers thrown in.
I'm the one who misstated that he won a match not him, so direct your pent up jabs at me, not him. I thought that the shooting sports was where all shooters went out of their way to help others, you have shown me that the ranks have been invaded by others who feel they must go through life spitting out words that hurt others.
I'm the one who made a mistake in describing an exchange of words between myself and a person who I call a real friend. Later David AKA Cajun Shooter aka Fairshake SASS 81802

[Don McDowell]

David, thanks for the kind words. Just don't sweat the small stuff, it's just not worth getting worked up over.

[BrentD]

Dave, I have no pent up jabs. Just the facts. There are match winners and there are others.

There have been very very very few match winners with paper patched bullets. That's all there is to it. You can say what you want about me, but those are the facts and there are some that are rather infamous for their internet illusions of being major match winners who are anything but. They are well known among competitive shooters, but among others on the net, that gets lost in the noise.

You can disparage me all you want, but don't disparage the true winners. They earned their honors, and they deserve respect.

[brstevns]

Being the OP of this thread I would like to say this is a long ways from my original question. Please stop the neet picking it only makes for problems for this great site!!!!!

[BrentD]

Being the OP of this thread I would like to say this is a long ways from my original question. Please stop the neet picking it only makes for problems for this great site!!!!!

Indeed. And you have a lot of good answers to your question as well, the consensus being that it does not matter which way you wrap.

[Gunlaker]

On various forums I've seen people speculate on how patches come off of the bullet. I also doubt that they unwind as they generally come out as tiny shredded pieces. I think they are cut at pretty much the moment of obduration. The rapid change of diameter from bore to groove ( which will take place in under a thousandth of a second ) probably provides enough strain on the patch to split it at the groove corners. But that's just my speculation.Chris.

[BrentD]

Chris,
This is the best video of paper coming off a bullet that I know of. It clearly does not "unwrap"

[fouronesix]

BrentD,
Excellent video. It confirms what I "see" when either watching the debris in the cloud in front of the muzzle or the shards strewn downrange of the muzzle that can be found scattered on the ground. It also shows the most common largest pieces of paper shards that survive are usually those near or over the bullet base.

Early on and while experimenting, I wrapped both directions and could tell no difference in result or accuracy. Now I usually do it with nose left and rolled pushing the bullet away. All my guns are right hand twist.

[BrentD]

That video is the best! I wish I knew who did it. They had good gear and I would love to have them make a few more films like that.

I have tested extensively for the effect of roll direction but can't find any difference. I roll with nose to the right and away like this


For many years I rolled wet. Now I only roll dry. It is a lot like the rolling left vs right - doesn't matter.

[brstevns]

That video is the best! I wish I knew who did it. They had good gear and I would love to have them make a few more films like that.

I have tested extensively for the effect of roll direction but can't find any difference. I roll with nose to the right and away like this


For many years I rolled wet. Now I only roll dry. It is a lot like the rolling left vs right - doesn't matter.

How do you get a dry wrap tight? What type of paper?

[Keith Andersen]

Chris,
This is the best video of paper coming off a bullet that I know of. It clearly does not "unwrap"

Lead pot posted that video here someplace with the web site he found it on.

[BrentD]

Keith, the video has really been making the rounds but strangely, none of us know where it came from. I wonder if it isn't european. Possibly Pedersoli, but I'm just speculating.

BRStevns - I use a variety of papers. Most are onion skin with 25% cotton content. But it's not hard with any paper I've attempted. I also dry wrap for muzzleloaders.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Well Brent is back to posting, been a while. And is his ole charming self.

KW

[BrentD]

Well Brent is back to posting, been a while. And is his ole charming self.

KW

Never quit posting Kenny. Just got tired of listening to the false prophets and the phony braggarts on Shiloh. Doesn't mean I quit posting anywhere else.

I may not be charming and I do not have much use for popularity contests, but unlike some I put a premium on honesty.

I know who are the real winners, esp. with paper patches, and who barks a lot from the bottom of the pack like they think they are big dogs.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

For those that may not know Brent did win a LR regional back a while back with PP. Also even longer back a few years ago Brent brought forth a method of group testing, called a 2 shot group test method. Quite a few folks decried it, offered a lot of neg opinions. For once I kept my mouth shut as I saw more than a bit of merit in it. Brent is a pretty smart fella, I have been playing with his 2 shot testing. All I can say is the thing makes a lot of sense to me.

Don't get me wrong, I do not always agree with him, we are not buds, lol. But I still regard him as one of the modern forefathers that got many of us shooting Paper Patch.

I watched him win the AAA class at Raton Nationals Silhouette, He got one hell of a nice trophy. I know he doesn't think much of that, even though he was using PP, he sure did not decline the trophy through, and actually smiled a bit. He beats me in Silhoutte regularly, he is a very good shot.
KW

[Don McDowell]

How do you get a dry wrap tight? What type of paper?

It takes a bit of practice on the technique but you can get a dry wrap nice and tight.
Seth Cole 55w works pretty good for dry and damp rolling. I also found in a Staples store 8# tracing paper in a roll, that looks feels and measures the same as the Seth Cole. 9# cotton rag paper works real well wrapping wet.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Don, I never could keep em tight with out the tail.

KW.

[Don McDowell]

It's a pain to keep flat bases tight, but can be done. I do end up rerolling a few when loading the cartridges. Hollow/cup based bullets really shine for dry rolling you get that fold just right and they really lock up tight.
I have a lot of trouble pulling the seth cole patches in two when trying to roll them damp.

[brstevns]

Was thinking about PP the Lee 45 cal minie to use in the 45/70. Was wondering if it has too much of a skirt? Hate to have it blow off in a barrel!

[Keith Andersen]

I think you might be right that it might be from over seas. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUU...02j0l2kkAUMSWw
http://www.svartkrutt.net/news/nh_vis.php?id=21

There is a guy named Larry Pletcher that does a lot of high speed editing with muzzle loaders. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php you might look him up and see if he will do this for you. He lives over in Indiana someplace.

Chris,
This is the best video of paper coming off a bullet that I know of. It clearly does not "unwrap"