My 44-40 Black Powder Journey

[w30wcf]

LG,
I use various alloys with b.p. depending on the application...from pure lead to 50/1 to a mix of w.w./lead to plain w.w with 2% tin added.

I was using a mix of w.w. / lead (11 BHN) when I shot the targets illustrated.
SPG has worked very well for me ... at least in the cartridges with a 40 gr. charge and lower sectional density bullets.
As they say, "A picture is worth a 1000 words." and the targets do speak for themselves.

I have thought about getting some DGL lube to try but haven't done it yet.

w30wcf

[Lead pot]

John try a mix of B-wax and Vaseline the temper that suits you.

[blackpowder man]

+1 more vote for a sticky. I load a bunch of bp cartridges and am ready to add .44-40 to the list of ones I shoot. Got everything I need except for a gun chambered in it.

[prs]

Jack, that is a fine write-up. I really like your version of the 44 boolit with the PRS type lube canyon. Back when I put my way too large and deep lube canyon in the 45 colt boolit, I was pretty much limited to Goex and then Elephant and thus the need for lots of lube. I was also using clip on WW alloy with 2% tin. Elephant in the early batches was not too bad, but later on I think they were scraping up the dregs a bit. Swiss rules and I have plenty of it so no experience with Ole E, yet. Congratulations on the fine shooting rifle, the fine shooting loads you worked-up, and the fine shooting you did! Carry on!

prs

[w30wcf]

Howdy PRS,
Thank you. It was your development work that proved that additional lube capacity would eliminate foul out and allow many repeated accurate shots with Goex and similar fouling powders.

I just did a bit more experimenting to see what the Ideal lube capacity would be beyond which any additional lube would not be consumed and thus not needed.

Did you ever get the chance to shoot those 45-260F bullets that I had sent to you?

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Lead pot,
Thank you. I might give that a try.

w30wcf

[Lead pot]

It was used in the late 1800rds mixed 50/50. I use it straight for a patch lube and can shoot the whole match with out sticking a ball.

[bigted]

very interesting post. thankyou so much for the info and clear presentation. nice to read a post that has no quibbling in it and full of GREAT info.

I also would be proud to see this a STICKY

[Hickok]

I enjoyed that. I would think the Marlin 1894 rifle would be easy to clean after shooting BP, it being so simple to take down.

[Lumpy grits]

I enjoyed that. I would think the Marlin 1894 rifle would be easy to clean after shooting BP, it being so simple to take down.

They are the KISS of rifle design.
I shoot BP in mine for SASS all the time.
LG

[Old Scribe]

w30wcf, thanks for the fine article. I haven't loaded BP cartridges but I'm gonna pretty soon. I just got my grandfather's '73 44-40 from my brother. My gramps was born in 1892 and I have a picture of him on horseback with this rifle circa 1918.
This would make a great sticky.

[w30wcf]

Old Scribe,
Wonderful! Walking in your grandfather's steps using the Winchester that he used is really special!
Have you checked the serial number to see when it was manufactured/

Since the original '73's can vary a bit in their groove dimensions, it would be a good idea to slug the barrel.

Back in those days it was known that pure lead bullets and b.p. would shoot well from barrels having slightly different internal dimensions. That is not the case with harder cast bullets that do not fill the groove.

w30wcf

[prs]

Howdy PRS,
Thank you. It was your development work that proved that additional lube capacity would eliminate foul out and allow many repeated accurate shots with Goex and similar fouling powders.

I just did a bit more experimenting to see what the Ideal lube capacity would be beyond which any additional lube would not be consumed and thus not needed.

Did you ever get the chance to shoot those 45-260F bullets that I had sent to you?

w30wcf

NO! They are way too purdy to shoot! Well, actually, I have been busy correcting a personal flaw. I had never owned or learned to handle proficiently a 1911 and now, after a couple or few years at it, I am about ready to return to my smoke filled ventures. I may make a spring project of "your" boolits.

prs

[prs]

To our Moderators:

This thread definitely needs to be a STICKY. Please.

prs

[SgtDog0311]

w30wcf, Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for taking the time to share your journey. Makes me want to go get some brass ready and give BP a try. If nothing else some great recommendations for a new mold from Tom.

[cajun shooter]

I designed the 43-210B as Tom has pointed out in his article but I've always used a different lube from what Tom has been stuck to like glue for quite a while. I sent him some of my bullets several years back to use in his Marlin. Tom's Marlin has a 24 inch barrel as opposed to the 18" bbl on my 1873 and 20'" bbl on my Rossi 92 (Early Brazilian model).
My guns both have the .427 bbls. and I size my bullets at .429 I would advise anyone who has a 44WCF to slug your barrel before buying any molds.
Tom and I have had many conversations about him having great accuracy with my bullet, the 43-210B until he has fired more than 25 or more rounds, then he has leading in his bore. I told him that I had never had one incident of leading with my bullet when lubed with the NASA lube that I used all the time.
Tom said that he never had any trouble with other bullets when he used his SPG lube. I sent Tom some NASA lube and he finally agreed to try it. He sent me a letter describing how he had used my bullet lubed with NASA and fired out of his Marlin for many rounds with no leading at all.
I was so glad that Tom finally decided to use the NASA lube and see what I was speaking of. It was after he kept getting leading with my bullet that he designed the 43-215C which is a very fine bullet also.
Tom posted a video that shows him shooting my bullet at metal rams at 300 yards on the site. It's worthwhile looking it up and watching.
I've loaded some ammo up with the Olde Eynsford and hope to post some info on that soon. Take care David aka Fairshake

[cajun shooter]

Attachment 138834Attachment 138835Attachment 138836Attachment 138837Attachment 138838Attachment 138839Attachment 138839Attachment 138840
These are the pics of my 44wcf Ideal Handloading Tool. Research on my part shows that this is a Ideal #4 Tool. The patent date on the side reads 1884.
I tried casting some bullets with this mold from 20-1 alloy and it dropped bullets at .425-.426
The decapping tool was not with the tool when I first purchased it. It took me about four years to find one and I had to pay $50 for it. The tool is designed to carry the decapper in the bullet seating chamber and it is easy for it to fall out on opening. You can see where the one handle was hit with a metal object for help in the loading process. The bullet mold has the same marks, most likely for ejecting the cast bullet from the mold. Later David

[John Boy]

David, you may be interested ... I'm putting back together a JM Marlin Ballard, #2 Sporting Rifle, which was originally chambered for the 44WCF. Presently am gathering all the needed parts for it. Will be relined with TJ's 1:18 liner.
Talking with John, the bullets will be 1:16 alloy from his Accurate 43-215C. Reason is because I'll be able to shoot both BP and smokeless reloads with the bullet

[Outpost75]

To our Moderators:

This thread definitely needs to be a STICKY. Please. prs

Another vote for STICKY!

[Klaus]

Another vote for STICKY!

The Vote for Sticky from Germany too

very interesting posts from John to understand how the oltimers load and use the BP Rounds in the field
some forgotten info will revived for people in charge with this fantastic stuff

regards
Klaus