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Thread: My 44-40 Black Powder Journey

  1. #1
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    My 44-40 Black Powder Journey

    I first began my.44-40 black powder journey back in 1999. Just prior to that, I had obtained some early .44-40 black powder factory W.R.A. CO. head stamped cartridges for study. Dissecting them, I found that they contained a pure lead 200 gr. bullet with two shallow grease grooves. The 40gr. FFG charge was compressed an average of about .20”.



    In 1875, to give its readers some idea of what their .44 W.C.F. (44-40) black powder factory ammunition was capable of in their then new 1873 rifle, Winchester featured a letter they received from a E.H. Pardee, M.D. of San Francisco, CA

    “It affords memuch pleasure to communicate to you the result of 30 consecutive shots at adistance of 110 yards with one of the improved Winchester rifles (1873). The firing was done without wiping, whichproves the Winchester to be steady in her performance…..”

    Illustrated was atarget containing 30 shots, all inside of a 4” circle, and all fired with no cleaning between rounds. Pretty impressive, even now..



    Today, Lyman’s 427098 mold is a close replication of the original bullet and bullets from ittypically measure around .427” - .428” diameter depending on the alloy. Most .44-40 rifles made currently usually have a groove diameter of .429” with some barrels as large as .432”. I did find that if undersized bullets are soft enough (no harder than 50/1) they will bump up and give accurate shooting.

    However, it is better to have a bullet that is at least .001” over groove diameter if possible.. That is what a good friend of mine who goes by the handle “Fairshake” did several years ago when he contacted Accurate Molds to have them produce a 427098 clone mold, which, could be purchased to produce bullets in a specific diameter to fit an individual rifle’s specifications. In addition, the lube grooves would be square bottomed like the original factory bullets but with a bit more lube capacity.

    I began my journey with the Lyman mold. Bullets were lubed with SPG and loaded over Goex FFG powder sparked by CCI 300 primers in R-P cases. All was well for about 10 rounds” or so in the 24” barrel but accuracybegan to degrade rapidly shortly thereafter as a hard ring of fouling started to build from the muzzle back into the barrel.

    I then tried magnum large pistol primers, but still the hard ring of fouling made its appearance. I came to the conclusion that, based on Doc Pardee’s excellentresults, the early b.p.’s were of better quality than the Goex powder I wasusing.

    SWISS B.P.
    I had read about Swiss b.p. made in Switzerland that was said to have similar characteristics to the early b.p.’s so I ordered some. What a difference! Now I was able to shoot 50+rounds with no hard ring of fouling and accuracy being maintained throughout. I found that with bullets from the Accurate 427098 clone (43-210B) pioneered by “Fairshake” over SwissFFG powder, the accuracy and performance of the original factory b.p. cartridges could be replicated.

    GOEX B.P. – BulletDevelopment for use with -
    But what about those who wanted to use a b.p. made in the U.S.? Back in 2002, a fellow with the handle PRS(Pigeon Roost Slim) had been working with the .45 Colt to develop a bullet that would carry enough lube to keep the more fouling Goex powder from fouling out in repeated shots. Lee made the mold to his specifications and it has worked very well.
    Following that, a fellow with the handle “Mav Dutchman” had Lee make a similar mold for the.44-40.

    Thankfully, a fellow by the name of DD (Dick Dastardly) made it possible to procure thosemolds today at www.biglube.com.

    “MAV D” (Big Lube)- I purchased some of the “Mav D” bullets from the supplier listed below and,sure enough, loaded over Goex powder, Icould fire many shots in a row with accuracy being maintained throughout.

    Accurate 43-215C - Being a traditionalist, I decided that I wanted a bullet that would exactly match the original .44-40 bullet nose profile and would carry enough lube for the 24” trip many times accurately using standard Goex black powder. In addition, I had found that the original nose profile is best for down range accuracy (100+ yards) which is one of the things I like to do.

    To start with, I used the 427098 and machined away the middle driving band a bit at a time, thus adding a bit more lube capacity until testing indicated that I had reached the IDEAL lube capacity for the task at hand.. It is now the 43-215C made by Accurate Molds. Thankfully, it runs very well with Goex and continues to produce very good down range accuracy (100+ yards) for many rounds with no foul out.



    BULLET SUPPLIERS
    1.) “Mav D” (BigLube)
    2.) 43-210B(427098 clone) Not shown on Mark's website but he offers it. Contact forinformation
    www.whyteleatherworks.com

    427098 - http://www.buffaloarms.com/Hand_Cast_Bullets_it-157239.aspx?CAT=4135-

    Black Dawge - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/137773/goex-black-dawge-bullets-44-caliber-430-diameter-205-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-100?cm_vc=ProductFinding

    Accurate 43-215F –no commercial supplier presently

    BULLET MOLDS
    www.biglube.com
    www.accuratemolds.com
    http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/bullet-casting/index-pistols.php



    BLACK POWDERS > GROUP A -
    Goex / Schuetzen / Diamondback
    Works best with the Mav D (Big Lube) or the 43-215C bullets

    BLACK POWDER > GROUP B
    KIK – with the 427098 /43-210B, accuracy was maintained for about 2X longer than Goex or about 20 rounds after which accuracy deteriorated as the black ring of fouling wasbuilding in the 24” barrel at the muzzle inward. .

    BLACK POWDERS > GROUP C
    Swiss / Olde Enysford
    Works very well with the original 2 lube grooved bullet … 427098 / 43-210B
    (Testing the newer introducedOlde Enysford powder last year, I found that it worked as well as Swissproducing very good continuous accuracy for many shots.)

    BLACK POWDER SUPPLIERS (will ship as little as 5#)
    http://blackpowderva.com/
    http://www.powderinc.com/
    http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501


    LOADING .44-40BLACK POWER CARTRIDGES
    I typically use a Lyman 55 powder measure which has markings for b.p. and mostly Ioad with themeasure set at the “40” setting. Because the densities of different black powders vary, the actual weight varies as this pic indicates.
    .


    I dump the powdercharge slowly into the case with the pan held 4-5” above the powder funnel tosettle it. Some folks use a drop tubebut I find that I get pretty much the same result in the .44-40 case) Another method that I have recently adopted isto drop the charges in a block of 50 cases, then put another block on top and lightly rapidly tap the cartridge block which also settles the powder.




    A hand held body massagevibrator will likely work as well…..

    Lesser powder charges can certainly be used as long as the powder is compressed. Some folks use the Lee 2.2CC scoop for their .44-40 b.p. loads. It holds 32.5 grs. by weight of Goex FFG.Compression is about .10” on a settled charge (Winchester or Starline cases) at a seating depth of .36”.

    To determine theamount of power compression a particular load requires, I use a fired casewhere the bullet is a slip fit in the case neck. First determine the o.a.l. ofyour loaded cartridge. Then after placing the powder charge into the fired case(pouring it in slowly to settle it) place the bullet into the case neck, pu**** down on the powder and measure the o.a.l. The compression is the difference between that length and the finalloaded cartridge length..

    In the loadingprocess, if your bullet is at least 10-12 BHN hardness, it can be used to compress the powder charge when seated. If less than 10 BHN, it would be betterto pre compress the powder before seating the bullet……depending on the amountof compression and the actual hardness of the bullet. Pre compressing the powder can be done withthe neck expander, a compression die, or a slightly smaller caliber jacketedbullet like a 10MM.

    Velocities recorded with different black powdersloaded at the “40” setting – Lyman 55 measure. Because of the differentdensities, the actual weights of the various powders do vary, but by using thevolume measure, the compression is the same for all..
    Case– R-P .44-40 / Primer – CCI 300
    Bullet– 210 gr. 427098 / 43-210B


    With Swiss FFG and Olde Enysford, I found that the “36” setting produced velocities comparable with theoriginal 44-40 b.p. cartridge.

    continued next post
    Last edited by w30wcf; 01-11-2015 at 11:01 PM.
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

  2. #2
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    So just how accurate can a well crafted .44-40 black powder cartridge be? Very accurate.

    Remember the 30 shot group I mentioned in the beginning fired in 1875? 30 shots under 4” @ 100yards. Awesome! Fast forward 135 years or so later at 100 yards…...that performance is still obtainable today …….

    For the accuracy testing, I had a scope mounted on the .44-40 Marlin Cowboy (24”) rifle since itneeded to be about the true accuracy of the cartridge rather than a test of howwell I can see iron sights with my aging eyes.

    Note: The bullet was actually the 43-210B


    And a follow up 10 shot group ….

    In the late 1800’s Winchester claimed that it’s .44 W.C.F. (.44-40) wasadequate for deer and bear out to 300 yards. Well, I have no desire to try thatbut I do love to shoot at steel silhouettes out a ways….

    300 meters (327yards) on the steel javelina





    Accurate Bulletmolds with the original .44-40 bullet nose profile




    So far, so good!
    w30wcf
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Great stuff!

    I have some Brazilian "Elephant" brand 2F and 3F black which was given me. Admittedly not the best BP, but the price was "right" so I may try it compared with Pyrodex P in my Ruger Vaquero 5-1/2" and Marlin 1894S just for academic curiosity.

    My plan is to mix some hillbilly correct lube, absolutely "non-Halal" Goya refined pig lard (Manteca) and beeswax, 50-50 by melted volume and fill the case similarly to what you have done. Then we can answer the question , will Microgroove shoot black? Let's find out!
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
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    w30wcf ... yes, the culmination of a journey with a great article. Thanks for the post
    Am sure that Lee Shaver or Steve Garbe would like to publish your treatise! The cover page of the current issue of Black Powder Cartridge News is entitled ... The Guns of 1873
    Would be a great follow up article
    Regards
    John

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    w30wcf - Thanks for the post. Great info.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



    retread's Avatar
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    Good post. Love those old 73's.

  7. #7
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    Thank you for the great post w30wcf. A couple of years ago I managed to pick up a 92 Winchester SRC in .44/40 made in 1919.In searching for some loading tips I ran across a post by "Fairshake".I sent him a p.m. with a couple of questions and in a few days I had a nice supply of his 430-210B already lubed and sized for me to try.
    The 430-210B shot so well I had to have Tom at Accurate Moulds make me one.
    If you are unwilling to defend even your own lives, then you are like mice trying to 'negotiate' with owls. You regard their ways as 'wrong', they regard you as dinner. John Farnam

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Good post John!
    The .44-40 was and still is a great cartridge. I like it.
    I would like to have a 1860 Henry (new) cant afford an original for the .44-40

  9. #9
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    I'm happy to see that you posted this article John. When you sent it to me, my first thought was that it needed to be available for others to read. I have my copy saved in a special place. Thanks David "Aka Cajun Shooter aka Fairshake"
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy iron brigade's Avatar
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    Good article. I am about to take a journey with my uberti henry 44-40. special thanks to David for all he has done to help me. generous man.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub bigbuck's Avatar
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    THANK YOU,

    for sharing this with us.

    Greetings from sunny Bavaria

    bigbuck

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    Great write up and information - thanks very much for sharing it with us. I load some BP cartridges but have never done a 44-40 and your information certainly gives a good run down on that cartridge and the research you've put in to it. I'd cast a vote that they make this a "sticky" as it certainly provides some great information. Thanks again!

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    What a great read! Thank you!
    I would 2nd the request for this to become a STICKY.

    Makes me want to get the 44 back out!
    Chill Wills

  14. #14
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    John, I have been interested in the use of the old reloading tools for this kind of historical ammo reproduction. Have you tried any of this with the old Ideal -all in one- tool, that is, the Ideal #4, with the mold attached? Not the newer 310 tool.
    Or maybe the Winchester tool combo of mold and loading tool?

    -Michael Rix
    Chill Wills

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Third request for "Sticky" Probably the best article I have ever read on this site! My favorite is:
    Attachment 127340
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I agree this should be a sticky , lots of good information and it needs to be easy to find.Thanks again to both John and David!
    If you are unwilling to defend even your own lives, then you are like mice trying to 'negotiate' with owls. You regard their ways as 'wrong', they regard you as dinner. John Farnam

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Try that .44 WCF loaded with 3F Goex.
    It really comes alive, then.
    LG
    Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men

  18. #18
    In Remembrance w30wcf's Avatar
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    Guys,
    Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.

    Outpost 75,
    I think you will find that the Elephant powder will produce ballistics similar to the Diamondback powder that replaced it.

    Chill Wills,
    I don't have the Ideal tool but I do have a Winchester Mold and Winchester loading tool for the .44 W.C.F.
    The mold has wooden handles and drops a .426" bullet that weighs 206 grs in pure lead.
    I do have an ideal tool for a few other calibers with the attached mold. I definitely need to wear some heavy gloves to be able to hold onto the handles when casting.

    LG,
    A 40 gr volume charge of Goex FFFG goes 1,310 f.p.s. and did not give as good accuracy as did Swiss FFG which actually produced higher velocity.

    w30wcf
    Last edited by w30wcf; 01-15-2015 at 01:22 PM.
    aka w44wcf
    aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
    aka John Kort
    NRA Life Member
    .22 W.C.F., .30 W.C.F., .44 W.C.F. Cartridge Historian

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    What alloy are you using? I use 30:1(lead/tin).
    What primer?
    I have had much better results using DGL lube for BP loads, than I ever did with SPG.
    LG
    Hav'n you along-Is like lose'n 2 good men

  20. #20
    Black Powder 100%


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    Chill Wills, I have had my Ideal tool for the 44WCF for about 7 years now. I was a long hard hunt and I still was not able to find one with the intact decap tool intact. I did secure one about 4 years ago. These tools were made for the early 44WCF's as the mold drops a .425 bullet with 20-1 alloy.
    As you know the caliber did come with bores of this size before they decided to make them at .427 which became the standard for Winchester.
    I will tell you that I could not wait to load some ammo from scratch so that I could see what the old cowboys went through. It only takes about 10 rounds before the handles become too hot to hold and the loading comes to a stop. Of course for the most part, from what history I was able to gather, they only had to load the ones they fired that day which was not huge amounts like we use in a SASS match.

    It's written that they would wrap the handles in leather strips in addition to wearing leather gloves. I have a good picture of mine on a disc but I have no idea where it's at.
    You can see where the tool was hit with a piece of heavy metal as the top of one handle has small indentions on it.
    I have often wondered what I'm going to do with the tool as I don't want it to go to a flea market and purchased for $5 by some kid who uses it as a toy. As in the movie Apocalypse Now, The Horror oh The Horror. Ha!! Ha!! Later David
    Shooter of the "HOLY BLACK" SASS 81802 AKA FAIRSHAKE; NRA ; BOLD; WARTHOG;Deadwood Marshal;Bayou Bounty Hunter; So That his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat; 44 WCF filled to the top, 210 gr. bullet

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check