Ladel pouring

[NavyVet1959]

Yep, I had to stand too. It wasn't until I got a bottom pour and found I could sit down that I realised how civilized using a bottom pour is!

Depending upon your age and prior body injuries (yeah, if we had known we were going to live this long, we would have taken better care of our bodies, or at least not don't quite as many stupid things in our youth), standing or sitting for very long can cause pain and it's nice to change it up. I think it would be possible to sit and cast with my ladle, but I suspect that I would need to redesign the casting table to be lower or I would need the chair to be bar stool height.

From a purely safety standpoint, an argument could be made that standing is better since if you spill molten lead toward you, you are more likely to be able to jump out of the way than if you were seated and subject to it landing in your lap. I wear a leather welding apron when I'm casting, so I'm hoping that it will give me an extra second or so to push away from the table before I end up getting broiled.

[marshall623]

Only been ladle pouring a little while, but so far I've noticed more consistent bullets and fewer rejects. The Lyman 287641 likes pressure pouring. My NOE 360-180-wfn. The pressure pouring caused lots of flashing ( fins on the boolits) worked better holding the spout out of the sprue. Plate

[bhn22]

I have a #1 Rowell. I bought it as a means to make my ingots a consistent size, and have never tried actually casting with it, Most of the problem is that it's not left-hand friendly, although I did start out casting with the wrong hand.

[NavyVet1959]

I have a #1 Rowell. I bought it as a means to make my ingots a consistent size, and have never tried actually casting with it, Most of the problem is that it's not left-hand friendly, although I did start out casting with the wrong hand.

Then give the condiment ladle with a hole drilled in the bottom a try. It only costs a buck or so and should work the same for left or right hand use.

One thing that I have noticed with it is that the mold comes up to temperature quicker since you can pour a bigger sprue while allowing the excess to drain back into the casting pot. If you tried that with a normal bottom pour pot, you would most likely end up with a big mess of solidified lead under the pot.

[country gent]

I ladle cast using an rcbs or lyman ladle. I use single cavity moulds although I have been considering some 2 cavity moulds. I cast moetly 40-45 cal bullets in the 400 grn to 550 grn range. A few 38 cal rifle at 335 grns also. My ladles have the spouts opened up to .205 dia holes now. My sprue plates are set up like the brooks vented sprues with the run of u shaped groove. this allows control of run off metal and a consistent sprue. I dont pour for a sprue but a controlled pour of a ladle full of molten metal allowing excess to run back into pot. I have noticed 2 things doing this, 1) is there is much less shrinkage as the sprue cools. 2) bullets look much better for sharp edges and are much more consistent as to weight to weight variation. Less shrinking of the sprue indicates a better flow and fill of the cavity to me as does the more consistent weight variations. The vented sprue plates seem to help alot with controlling the lead run off. Experimenting with diffrent techniuqes will show what works with you set up and moulds. Bottom pouring can work as ladle pouring can also work, gravity pouring, pressure pouring, angling the mould on the pour, over pouring all need to be tried and tested to see what works best.

[bhn22]

Realistically, you could make one of those condiment ladles into bottom pour. Drill a hole in it and add a tube, similar to the way the cast ladles are made. Silver solder might even work for the joint. If not, brazing surely would.

[NavyVet1959]

Realistically, you could make one of those condiment ladles into bottom pour. Drill a hole in it and add a tube, similar to the way the cast ladles are made. Silver solder might even work for the joint. If not, brazing surely would.

Actually, with the hole drilled in the bottom, it is already a bottom pour.

I had though that just drilling a hole would result in a flow of lead that was not a smooth stream and I might need to use a punch to cause the area around the hole to deform into a funnel shape or braze a small tube in the hole, but I was surprised to find that it flowed smoothly and the hole was good enough.

I had also though that the flow rate might be too high and I might need to create a bottom pour plug for the ladle that I could leave it off until I had the ladle over the mold, but that proved unnecessary also. Sometimes, simple solutions work.

[Deadpool]

You could probably attach a spring and lever mechanism to the handle that pulls/pushes a pin to open/close that hole for your condiment ladle. Maybe overbuild, but you'd be able to sit down again.. especially if it had a 90 degree bend in your favor.

[btroj]

I have a #1 Rowell. I bought it as a means to make my ingots a consistent size, and have never tried actually casting with it, Most of the problem is that it's not left-hand friendly, although I did start out casting with the wrong hand.

Het a mirror, cast behind your back. Now the Rowell faces the right way.

Some people just like to find problems, not solutions.

[dikman]

Great bit of lateral thinking! .

NavyJet, after I analyzed the casting process using a ladle, I figured it was far too dangerous to do it sitting down! (Partly 'cos I'm getting clumsier as I get older!).

[NavyVet1959]

Great bit of lateral thinking! .

NavyJet, after I analyzed the casting process using a ladle, I figured it was far too dangerous to do it sitting down! (Partly 'cos I'm getting clumsier as I get older!).

I think it might be possible, but I'm pretty sure that I would need to use a significantly lower casting table (or a chair that was bar stool height). I'm thinking the "table" would need to be maybe 8-12" high (depending upon your chair height and body proportions). I'm thinking you would want the top of the casting pot to be about the same height as the top of you knees as you are seated, maybe a bit less. Your left arm could rest on your left leg while you are holding the mold and you control the ladle with your right hand. This would not be a full width casting table, just a small raised area where there was room for one leg on one side of it and your other leg on the other side of it. Maybe two 8"x16" cinder blocks laid side by side with the faces facing upwards. I wear a leather apron, jeans, and boots when I'm casting, so any spilled lead doesn't hit me directly, but I've never had a *major* spill while casting. If you were seriously concerned about a major spill, you could put the casting pot in a larger steel container that could catch spills that happen within a certain distance of the casting pot. Perhaps something like a metal 5g bucket would work well enough for a "proof of concept"? You might need to build a round platform to fit in the bottom of the 5g bucket to raise the casting pot up to the right height since you might not want the rim of the bucket up so high that it was touching your arm that was holding the mold. If it worked well, you could refine the design with something a bit more customized.

I grew up on a ranch and we had a few pecan trees. I can remember many of a fall day, sitting on the front porch with a 5g bucket of pecans in front of me, shelling them so that we could freeze then and use them throughout the year. It's possible that the body position / ergonomics are about the same with this sort of lowered casting pot idea.

[Wayne Smith]

I think it might be possible, but I'm pretty sure that I would need to use a significantly lower casting table (or a chair that was bar stool height). I'm thinking the "table" would need to be maybe 8-12" high (depending upon your chair height and body proportions). I'm thinking you would want the top of the casting pot to be about the same height as the top of you knees as you are seated, maybe a bit less. Your left arm could rest on your left leg while you are holding the mold and you control the ladle with your right hand. This would not be a full width casting table, just a small raised area where there was room for one leg on one side of it and your other leg on the other side of it. Maybe two 8"x16" cinder blocks laid side by side with the faces facing upwards. I wear a leather apron, jeans, and boots when I'm casting, so any spilled lead doesn't hit me directly, but I've never had a *major* spill while casting. If you were seriously concerned about a major spill, you could put the casting pot in a larger steel container that could catch spills that happen within a certain distance of the casting pot. Perhaps something like a metal 5g bucket would work well enough for a "proof of concept"? You might need to build a round platform to fit in the bottom of the 5g bucket to raise the casting pot up to the right height since you might not want the rim of the bucket up so high that it was touching your arm that was holding the mold. If it worked well, you could refine the design with something a bit more customized.

I grew up on a ranch and we had a few pecan trees. I can remember many of a fall day, sitting on the front porch with a 5g bucket of pecans in front of me, shelling them so that we could freeze then and use them throughout the year. It's possible that the body position / ergonomics are about the same with this sort of lowered casting pot idea.

Only problem I see with that is water dropping. This places the pot and any water for dropping way too close together. I'll stand, thanks.

[NavyVet1959]

Only problem I see with that is water dropping. This places the pot and any water for dropping way too close together. I'll stand, thanks.

That might be a concern. Normally though, a drop of water will vaporize when it hits the surface of the lead and not case a visit from the tinsel fairie. It's when you have a wet piece of lead and drop it in the pot that things get exciting. As a general principle, I like to keep water away from molten lead, but there might be a way of arranging the workflow or water bucket and casting pot so that the risk is minimized.

When I'm standing and ladle casting, I raise the 5g bucket with water so that it is sitting on a chair. That puts the top of the bucket below the level of the top of the casting pot. When I'm seated and using the bottom pour, I put the bucket on the ground.

[shooter2]

I am constantly amazed by the ideas that come forth in order to save a few $$ on tools. Ladles with a hole in it. Really? Do you always buy the cheapest car or gun?

Lyman and RCBS ladles are reasonable, the Rowell's are a little more and so much better. These tools last longer than you will and make life so much easier. Skip one dinner out and buy a good tool and use it for the rest of your life.

Lastly, stand if you are ladle asking. I know it's tiring. I am 78 and have a limited amount of energy for all the days jobs, but I just do not feel comfortable sitting while doing this job. Better yet, find a young guy that wants to learn, set him up at your workbench and teach him how for a 50-50 split.

I recently lent two moulds to a friend and fellow shooter and, without asking, got back hundreds of first class bullets from each mould as a thank you.

JMHO

[NavyVet1959]

I am constantly amazed by the ideas that come forth in order to save a few $$ on tools. Ladles with a hole in it. Really? Do you always buy the cheapest car or gun?

Lyman and RCBS ladles are reasonable, the Rowell's are a little more and so much better. These tools last longer than you will and make life so much easier. Skip one dinner out and buy a good tool and use it for the rest of your life.

The reason that I came up with that design for a ladle was just to see the difference in ladle casting before spending the money for a Rowell ladle. It's a cheap experiment and it will tell someone whether they like it and what kind of throughput to expect before spending money on the RCBS, Lyman, or Rowell ladles.

One of the justifications for a bottom pour pot is that you are always drawing lead from the clean lead at the bottom of the pot. With some ladles, any oxidation on the surface of the lead is going to be more readily transferred to the bullets since you are pouring off the top of the lead pool in the ladle. The Rowell has a tube that goes to the bottom of the lead pool in the ladle, so other than a slight amount of oxidation that might be at the top of the tube, it minimizes this potential problem. From what I have been able to tell about the Lyman and RCBS ladles, they attempt to minimize this by making the wall of the ladle extend further than the spout so that when you rotate the ladle, the oxidation on the surface quickly rotates upwards and you are pouring from below the surface of the lead. On the other hand, a truly bottom pour ladle like I created is always pouring from the bottom and as long as you are not using a mold that uses more lead than you have clean lead in the ladle, you should not end up with any of the oxides in the castings. Sure, you can minimize the oxides on the surface of your ladle by skimming the oxides to the side in the casting pot before you fill the ladle, but with a bottom pour ladle, it doesn't matter.

As I think about it though, I'm not so sure that my bottom pour ladle design is comparable to the traditional ladles from a process standpoint. Looking at it, I suspect that this design has an advantage with casting pots that are narrow and deep whereas the standard ladles probably work best with casting pots with wider openings. Filling one of the standard ladles when you only had an inch or so of lead in a deep casting pot with a small diameter might be not easy as it is with the condiment ladles due to the angle of the handle on the condiment ladle vs the straight sidewards handle on the traditional casting ladle.

Not everyone will end up liking ladle casting. Being able to try it out with an outlay of only a buck or so allows people to determine whether it is for them or not.

Some of us, because of age or various injuries in our "younger and dumber" days have pain if we sit too long or if we stand too long. For that matter, I seldom even get a good night's sleep because of the pain of *laying down too long*. Having a method where you can cast while standing up and another while you are sitting down helps with the pain.

[NavyVet1959]

One of the guys over on YouTube made a video of casting comparing my "design" with a traditional casting ladle. From looking at it though, I think he was using a larger ladle. I found that a 1 oz ladle was sufficient for a 6-cavity 230 gr mold while still leaving enough extra that any "crud" that got picked up from the surface of the casting pot still did not flow into the bullet mold.

[Bonz]

I upgraded to the Lee bottom pour 20# pot to get away from the ladle. LOL, and the pour spout gets blocked all the time requiring a torch to get it flowing again. It may work great when its warm outside but certainly giving me a headache right now.

[NavyVet1959]

I upgraded to the Lee bottom pour 20# pot to get away from the ladle. LOL, and the pour spout gets blocked all the time requiring a torch to get it flowing again. It may work great when its warm outside but certainly giving me a headache right now.

Every once in awhile, I completely empty my Lee pot and take a 1/16" drill bit to the bottom pouring spout. I also clean the inner sides and bottom of anything that might be left at the point.

• Heat the pot until all the lead is molten
• Pour as much of the molten lead out as possible into ingot molds (either through the bottom pour or by a ladle)
• Tilt the pot to pour whatever lead is left in the pot out the top opening
• Let the pot cool off so you can work on it without burning your hands

This also gives you a chance to tighten up the screws that always seem to come loose on the guides and such.

Eventually, it will junk up again and you'll have to repeat this. I also keep a propane torch handy for getting the pot to start flowing initially. Casting with the bottom pour ladle turned out to be a lot less work.

[Deadpool]

• Tilt the pot to pour whatever lead is left in the pot out the top opening
• Let the pot cool off so you can work on it without burning your hands

I do something similar, but simply wedge a 2x4 under the front so it tilts back.. Helps ladle the last of it out until it clears the spout. Then I just turn it off, let it harden, and sometimes I can remove the lead wedge but often just leave it in. I'll wear gloves and overturn the whole pot, at this point instead, if I want to do the water cleaning method. The water method works very well, letting it simmer on lowest setting.

[montana_charlie]

Only been ladle pouring a little while, but so far I've noticed more consistent bullets

I tried a bottom pour pot for a litle while, then went back to the dipper.

I had some work done on a mould recently, so I cast a run of 50 bullets to see how it does.

This is the Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet from an aluminum NEI mould, expected to weigh about 550 grains.

The total weight spread was from 548.8 grains to 550.0 grains.
Of the 50 cast, 21 weighed 549.6 and 18 weighed 549.4.
That is a degree of consistency that I can live with.

CM