1903A3 project

[Adam10mm]

I have a 1903A3 (Remington) bolt and receiver on the way and to be delivered tomorrow (Monday). I am quite perplexed at the cartridge choices available to me. I know the original is the 30-03 which evolved a bit into the 30-06. The problem is that romantic .473 case head just jumbled my brain. I'm not going to call this project "sporterized", since I'm starting with a stripped receiver and bolt. This will likely not be built as a period correct rifle, but won't be decorated with tactical trash.

Of all the .473 head family, these ones interest me the most. I don't want to go any smaller than .30 caliber but just can't decide about .30 or .35. This will be a cast boolit rifle with everything done with that in mind. This rifle will be shot frequently and treated as a tool should. I need some help deciding which direction to go.

I have my (self-imposed) choice of .308, .30-06, .358 Win or 35 Whelen. Between the 30s, it's about dead even. The 30-06 will be better with 200gr+ boolits I imagine with the slightly longer neck. The 308 has cheaper brass and NATO brass is available (primer crimp is no issue for me). With the smaller charges of cast loads it makes it seem more efficient than the 30-06. I think in the 30 caliber, I might go up to 190-200gr, but not over. That makes the longer neck of the 30-06 a non-issue.

Between the 35s it's a bit more involved. Brass is basically the same as the 30s and I plan on forming it using the 30 caliber parent case if I choose to go with either 35 caliber cartridge. It just differs in cost. Longer boolits in the Whelen would allow me to tinker with 265+ boolits and still get them up to speed over the WCF. The longer cartridges in either caliber would allow for heavier boolits over their short action cousins.

The bulk of my shooting will most likely be with lighter and medium weight boolits, like the 130-160gr range. In the 30s I would shoot a 311041 and the 35s would find a .35 caliber version of similar design as the workhorse. I'm not sure how much practical shooting I will be doing with heavy boolits really. That could change though. Other than component support, a new barrel could cure a bad choice.

My rifle experience is on either side of the spectrum in 30-35 territory. 375 H&H up to the 45/70 and mostly 223/5.56 with a short affair with the 7mm-08. This is very new for me.

I guess that's a really long way of trying to figure out if the 1903A3 action has any issues with short action cartridges. If it does, that will dictate the choice be between the Springfield and the Whelen. If there isn't any issue, then the NATO and WCF will duke it out.

[cwheel]

If it were me, I'd do a stock 30-06 build. You can still get new in the wrap Remington barrels, and all of the other Remington parts quite easy off ebay. 30-06 brass is very easy to come by, and the CMP might still have some of the ball ammo. When I bought my Greek return Remington 03A3 years ago, I also bought enough ammo to outlast my lifetime. You don't need to change anything to have a fine build. Lots of other calibers you could build on that rifle, but why ?? If I wanted to build a .243 - .308, I'd just get a short action Remington and start from there. Same idea for bigger. It's your choice for sure, but everything will fit and work as intended with little effort sticking with the intended 30-06 and you won't ever be disappointed. Just my preference.
Chris

[prsman23]

Put me in the 06 camp as well. Unless your hunting situation better fits that of a 308. When it comes to military arms I'm a sucker for original specs.

[Char-Gar]

I have been messing with 1903 and 1903A3 rifles for a very long time. I have also built up a number of Springfield sporters on the action and here are some of the things I have learned.

1. You will save yourself lots of angst if you stick to full length rounds based on the parent case like the 30-06, 270, 35 Whelen and the length. Shorter rounds can be made to work, but I see no purpose in doing so.

2. The 03A3 action has many tool marks on it, but can be made as smooth and slick as an 03 with lots of hand polishing.

3. The large rear sight dovetail on the rear receiver ring of the 03A3 can present issues for the sporter. There are some scope sight bases that fit right over it, or it can be removed and the rear ring shaped to resemble the 03.

4. In the January 1947 issue of The American Rifleman magazine, Townsend Whelen wrote an article entitleld "The 30-06 Is Never A Mistake". There has never been more true words put into print. It is a very versatile and accurate round with either jacketed or cast bullets.

The last rifle I built was an 03A3 action was a NRA Sporter clone. I started with a Smith-Corona action and a new 4 groove barrel of the same make. These were married, stocked and sighted. The result is the best rifle I have ever owned. It will deliver true 1.25 MOA groups. I am talking about ten shot repeatable groups with either jacketed or cast bullet loads. I have no doubt the groups could be shaved down to MOA with the use of a scope, but I don' want a scope on this rifle.

I have 7 rifles in 30-06 and 4 in 308 Win. and for standard length actions the 30-06 is the hands down choice. That short neck ( 308 Win. )does become an issue with cast bullets and it limits the choices of bullets. If there is any accuracy advantage to the 308 Win., it is so slight that 99.9% of the shooters will never notice it. The only time a 308 has any advantage is when using a short action which the 03A3 is not. With all the DCM Garands out there, military once fired 30-06s cases are in plentiful supply at prices no more than the 7.62.

The 7.62 originated in the minds of the military folks after WWII as a way to decrease the weight of the ammo and rifle, so the Infantryman could carry more rounds into battle. The M-14 shaved a pound off the weight of a Garand (M1) and the ammo weight was reduced by about 25%. That goal was met but that is the only advantage of the 7.62 over the 30-06.

Here is a pick of my last 03A3 sporter completed in 2005.

[marvelshooter]

Since you asked another vote for sticking with .30-06. I have an original '03A3 and and shoot 200 grain gas checked cast with everything from 12 grains of Unique up to full power loads of H4895. As cwheel mentions CMP is still selling ball ammo if you want to go that route. Now that you have started this thread you know we are going to want updates and pictures right?

[725]

On the 03 action, it would be my choice to build a .30-06, 270 Win, or .25-06. I'd research the pressures involved with the .25-06 to make sure it is compatible, but that's just me. Those three have become my most favorite of the one's for your application.

[Adam10mm]

If I wanted to build a .243 - .308, I'd just get a short action Remington and start from there.

Originally I wanted to build a Remington Model 7 in 358 WCF, but this action just came along for a good price and out came the debit card.

1. You will save yourself lots of angst if you stick to full length rounds based on the parent case like the 30-06, 270, 35 Whelen and the length. Shorter rounds can be made to work, but I see no purpose in doing so.

I was thinking that would be the case. An M1 Garand is on my list to build too, but that one is definitely going to be an 06.

2. The 03A3 action has many tool marks on it, but can be made as smooth and slick as an 03 with lots of hand polishing.

I like smooth rifles. Thanks for the heads up. This one will stay iron sights. I don't need a scope for what I plan on using it.

On the 03 action, it would be my choice to build a .30-06, 270 Win, or .25-06. I'd research the pressures involved with the .25-06 to make sure it is compatible, but that's just me. Those three have become my most favorite of the one's for your application.

The picture of it from the retailer shows a bent bolt, so it should be late production unless someone slapped a bent bolt in an early receiver.

Looks like the best choice is stick with the 30-06. Thanks for the advice.

[Adam10mm]

Char-Gar, your rifle is about what I had in mind. Bare bones rifle with iron sights and a pile of boolit cartridges loaded on stripper clips.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have a high numbered 03 barreled action with bolt out in the garage that needs some attention. The bore is rough, so in the back of my mind I've been thinking 8mm/06 by having the barrel bored out. With a 1 in 16 twist or there about, it might make a pretty good cast boolit shooter. The 8mm/06 was a popular chambering in bring back Mausers after WWII. I also just happen to have an extra Springfield M2 stock that needs a barreled action. The barrel channel is slightly large for the stock 1903 barrel, but perhaps those two orphans need to get hooked up!

Char-Gar, your rifle is about what I had in mind. Bare bones rifle with iron sights and a pile of boolit cartridges loaded on stripper clips.

My favorite style of rifle too. Loading old military rifles with stripper clips opens eyes at the range. Most shooters today (other than old NM shooters) are unaware of the procedure.

[Larry Gibson]

I suggest a 26" medium sporter barrel in 35 Whelen with a 16" twist. Many very good .35 cal rifle moulds from 180 - 220+ gr but I favor the RCBS 35-200-FN. With that cartridge and that length barrel in that twist you can push the 200 gr bullet to max and maintain accuracy. On the light end there is a plethora of .38/.357 bullet moulds from PB'd to heavier GC'd designs to fit many needs from plinking cat's sneeze loads to some decent hunting loads. The difference in the case volume between the .358W and to 35 Whelen is not as great a problem as many think with appropriate powders.

If you choose the '06 then I'd suggest a 26" medium sporter barrel with a 14" twist. Your chosen cast bullet, the 311041, will do extremely well in that from 800 fps upwards of 2600 fps.

Larry Gibson

[BruceB]

I sit here, chuckling to myself because of the TRUTH in this thread about the .30-06.

I have an aging left-hand M700 in .30'06, bought used from a friend in the early '70s (I think).

That rifle, using Nosler Partitions, has killed over 150 game animals for me, mostly caribou but also several moose and some bears as well.

No animal ever got out of sight after being fired upon. The longest shot was over 500 yards at a WOUNDED caribou (not wounded by me)..... I try to limit my shots to 200 yards or less, but on wounded game....

I've long considered the .308 and .303 to be ballistic twins with handloads. and I've also killed the above-listed critters with both. No drama, no rodeos. Make a good shot,and get out out the knives. For that matter, I'd happily hunt this continent with a .30-40 Krag.... WITH GOOD BULLETS.

I want nothing to do with cast-bullets in hunting until the bore diameter exceeds .330", and preferably something starting with ".4".... and even then I want a cast softpoint. I did carry my .416 Rigby on an Alberta elk hunt with cast softpoints, but no elk wanted to serve as test subjects.

[Adam10mm]

I never liked the 06. Just never got my interest. 30 caliber is my cast bullet minimum. I did the 375 Holland, 416 Dakota and 45/70. Holland was my favorite of them.

Biggest animal hunted here is whitetail and after this past year I am not going to bother again for a while. I would be satisfied with an 1894C in 357 for my needs but never found one when I had the money.

[Adam10mm]

I am not flush with money. That is the difference between well off and not. I have to scrounge money and do the labor myself as I can't afford to pay someone else.

[ktw]

Negaunee Rod & Gun club hosts Highpower competition. An iron sighted 03 sporter will get you into the NRA highpower events. You will need need one in military dress, and 30-06, for the CMP events. Good way to work on basic marksmanship skills.

-ktw

[Hardcast416taylor]

If you are going to rebarrel with another caliber, may I suggest the .338/06. Doing this change solved many problems I thought I was having about caliber and bullet weight headaches.Robert

[Adam10mm]

If you are going to rebarrel with another caliber, may I suggest the .338/06. Doing this change solved many problems I thought I was having about caliber and bullet weight headaches.Robert

I thought about that too. I had a Mauser I rebarreled to 338-06 several years ago. Good cartridge. I haven't had a 30 or 35 caliber rifle yet. I'm leaning 30-06 because I hear great things about the 311041 boolit. I'm leaning 35 Whelen because I can use light boolits for small game and heavy boolits for deer. The 358 185gr WFN should be good for rabbits and the RCBS 200-FN sounds like a winner for a general purpose boolit.


Receiver came Monday. I was under the weather so it's the first time I've looked at it. High serial number so it was double treated. Bolt is swept back, so it's definitely double treated as well. Has the Hatcher hole on the left side of the receiver and bolt. Looks like I'm good to go with whatever I choose. Next progress will be to complete the bolt and receiver assembly, then obtain a stock, and finally make up my mind about the cartridge and get a barrel for it. If anyone knows where to find stripper clips for this rifle, I would appreciate the information.

Attachment 126547Attachment 126548Attachment 126549Attachment 126551Attachment 126552

[Frank46]

Well since you don't have a barrel on the action yet, how about the 375/06 and uses the '06 case as the parent case. Frank

[woodbutcher]

RE:Stripper clips.Me thinks stripper clips for the .308/7.62 should do the job.Check out Shotgun News(R).IIRC,they have them listed.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Scharfschuetze]

That's a 1903 A3 action so it is, as I recall, a chrome-molly alloy steel. No issues with strength with that one. I didn't check the serial number, but it was probably made in 1942, 43 or there about.

Stripper clips for the 1903 were made in brass originally and later in parkerized steel. 7.62 NATO clips for the M14 had one guide rib on each side while 1903 stripper clips have two guide ribs on each side. Mauser clips have three other than the Argentine clips which have no guide ribs. That might help you in finding the right clips for your new 1903 A3. Generally you can mix and match the clips between rifles, but the correct clips will help things along by stabilizing the clip in the charging bridge of the rifle.

1903 clips showing the two little guide ribs per side:

[Adam10mm]

Well since you don't have a barrel on the action yet, how about the 375/06 and uses the '06 case as the parent case. Frank

That's a great options I forgot about. A 375249 or 375449 would be a great boolit. I thought about the 400 Whelen but dismissed it due to headspace control issues. If I choose the 375-06 I will opt for the AI version which I read has much better headspace control than the standard version.

That's a 1903 A3 action so it is, as I recall, a chrome-molly alloy steel. No issues with strength with that one. I didn't check the serial number, but it was probably made in 1942, 43 or there about.

Serial number is in the 3.96 million range, so I'm well above the change-over to double treat, which was around 800,000 for the Springfield Armory.

Stripper clips for the 1903 were made in brass originally and later in parkerized steel. 7.62 NATO clips for the M14 had one guide rib on each side while 1903 stripper clips have two guide ribs on each side. Mauser clips have three other than the Argentine clips which have no guide ribs. That might help you in finding the right clips for your new 1903 A3. Generally you can mix and match the clips between rifles, but the correct clips will help things along by stabilizing the clip in the charging bridge of the rifle.

1903 clips showing the two little guide ribs per side:

Thanks for that info about the clips. Makes shopping easier with the right info.