Revolver Accuracy; Perspection, perception and reality?

[44man]

My best group with the .220 Swift was 5 shots in 1/4" at 350 yards. Beat that one! Balvar 24 scope.
I had hundreds of trophy's. Archery, ML, rifle, etc. Don't talk about 1-1/2" with a revolver at 25 yards. You feed the gun wrong and an out of box revolver CAN do it at 100 yards.

[BCgunworks]

1/4" at 350 yds....5 shots.....where is the bs flag...

we had to go to the extreme to get a wheel gun to hold MOA consistently every time, every cylinder full....it became more of a shooting system....the franken ruger...


that series of gun will do it....as a rule of thumb I have found most MOA wheel gun claims to be bs

[Outpost75]

I love the thread as entertainment. When he military teams were still shooting M1s and not M14s, the SR decimal target had nor been adopted yet, not until 1966 at the Interservice and Camp Perry. The V-ring on the old Army A target was 5" at 200 and 300 yards, so onlt one shot out of THAT I believe. But if you were ona military team shooting an M1 on the SR target, it must have been Air Force or Navy, possibly a Marine Reserve team, and the Garand was 7.62, and those did shoot VERY well. Mine was 4208350 and was built by Charlie Frazer at NWSC Crane, IN.

[Tar Heel]

Here is a great group from a F/A Casull. I almost always get a flyer out of a group and well, that has to count in the group size. Factory ammo may eliminate such flyers but with my cast bullets and handloads, I seem to have to put up with them. The gun is capable of delivering the cloverleaf groups. With us driving, we deal with the "flyers." I don't care if you "call the flyer" or not, it counts in the group size.

Picture is from 25 yards, rest position, slow fire, careful aim. I have old eyes, no corrective lenses. Sights are getting a tad difficult to see now since I need reading glasses.

Attachment 126261

Here is a larger, more general group just having fun with the Vaquero and a "test" load at 25 yards. Group size was unmeasured but looks to be between 4 and 6 inches. This is an average looking group for a fun offhand banging session.

Attachment 126262

And here is an offhand group, slow fire, careful aim, two hand hold with a 1860 Army. 36 shots at 25 yards. Pretty good grouping but ALL of the rounds count in the group size. Can't cheat and eliminate the "flyers" from the group.

Attachment 126263

Hope these help in the evaluation. Only have that one target to show for the bench rest position and meeting all of the other criteria of open sights etc.

[tazman]

That's good shooting even with the flier.
I understand about the eyesight. I never had really good eyesight and it is getting worse.

[RogerDat]

Well Tar Heel those "fliers" in that BMC target still look like they "worked".
I guess it is safe to say you've done this target shooting thing before, at least a few times

One of my motivations for getting into reloading was to make practice more affordable.

[45 2.1]

Lots of naysayers on this thread. You take 100 revolvers of the line, feed them good handloads and you'll find about 10% that will do beyond your expectations. Put those in the hands of a really good knowledgeable handloader that knows his stuff and they will perform a whole lot better than most anyone here will believe. It really depends on just what you put in the gun and how well you can control yourself. Yep, some factory revolvers will do that as I've seen it for myself.

[44man]

Had an argument once so I took 5 shots down and shot Creedmore with my Vaquero at 50 yards. This is what I got. 320 gr Lyman with 21.5 gr of 296.Attachment 126268
Friend had a Freedom .475 and my boolit did 1/2" at 50 yards.
Then Whitworth was out, New out of box BFR in .500 JRH. He shot at a can at 100 yards and it did not fall, I took the next shot. This is the result. Attachment 126269
Two shots from two guys, same hole. Whit is a fantastic shot.

[robertbank]

There seems to be a misconception that some, including me I suppose, think the equipment is not capable of the claimed accuracy. Speaking for myself I don't. Revolvers are extremely accurate and far more so than almost all semi autos I can think of due for the most part because of the mechanical advantage of a fixed barrel. What some of us have a hard time believing, and with good reason, that revolvers with iron sights are capable of shooting 6" groups at 200 yards when shot in the hands of a human as recently claimed by a poster on another thread. Heck the front sight covers more than 6" of the target at that range. Use the six o'clock hold and you are looking at more than six inches of paper. Are the guns capable of shooting that kind of group? How would we know? Can we hit a plate at 200 yards? Heck yes, most likely can...even ugly girls get lucky. But groups of say five or ten, come on now the odds would be greater than winning the weekly lottery every week for a month.

Sorry but I remain skeptical. With a scope the game changes.

Take Care

Bob

[44man]

Shotgun shell shot at 100 yards, out of box BFR .500 JRH. Attachment 126270Attachment 126271 Last two .44 rounds I had left after an IHMSA shoot. Cardboard chicken at 200 meters. Open sights, Creedmore. Stock Ruger gun.
Don't tell me you need to spend a lot of money to do this stuff.

[Petrol & Powder]

I am always amused by people who claim group sizes from a stock revolver which are better than most factory match ammunition can produce from an industrial accuracy test barrel fired from a five ton concrete pedestal in an underground test tunnel.

I don't believe it. They should be at Camp Perry winning the Nationals!

/\ YES - THANK YOU !!!!
There are claims on this thread that exceed reality.

[44man]

Working loads with Whitworths new .500 JRH. 50 yards from bags. Attachment 126272
Stinking gun is worthless, Hole is over boolit size.
How many more pictures do you need? How about this? .475 at 50 yards. Attachment 126273Attachment 126274 Can shot 5 times in the one hole in the top at 100 yards. Rest are from a friends .45 acp rifle.

[NSB]

Had an argument once so I took 5 shots down and shot Creedmore with my Vaquero at 50 yards. This is what I got. 320 gr Lyman with 21.5 gr of 296.Attachment 126268
Friend had a Freedom .475 and my boolit did 1/2" at 50 yards.
Then Whitworth was out, New out of box BFR in .500 JRH. He shot at a can at 100 yards and it did not fall, I took the next shot. This is the result. Attachment 126269
Two shots from two guys, same hole. Whit is a fantastic shot.

You're seriously saying that an empty soda can was hit with a very heavy, large caliber slug and didn't fall over? It just keeps getting deeper and deeper. I once saw a squirrel swimming out of Lake Erie with a sturgeon in its mouth. If you don't believe it, I'll take a picture of the lake and prove it to you.

[white eagle]

small groups are fine and something to strive for but I am a hunter and the first shot is what matters to me.I believe that one shot aimed and hit where you aim is a good group.

[contender1]

I have followed this thread with a lot of study & amusement. I happen to have had the pleasure of meeting many of the top handgun shooters for many years. Many of them can do stuff with a handgun that defies most average shooters. I have seen some of my guns do MUCH better in other folks hands than my own. I have had factory production guns shoot scary accurate & others that make me wonder where they were hitting.
My best one, ever, in my hands from a rest, at 50 yds with a scope was a Ruger Redhawk in 44 mag. Out of the box, first rounds of moderate reloads, at 50 yds with the scope, doing a scope adjustment, the very first group was 1-1/2" and placed 3" to the left of center. Made a few clicks of windage on the scope & re-fired 6. Centered, and again a very good group.
Then I worked on my reloads for that gun. I found a moderate load that regularly put 1" groups or less at 50 yds, measured from center to center. I had a FEW under that, and one of the best was a 6 shot hole that the entire hole was less than 1". In fact the hole measured .989. I still have that target & info on it in my files.
Then, that gun went away in the worst way. The barrel separated from the frame. Mine was the very first Redhawk that had the barrel separate from the frame. It went back to Ruger & they replaced it.
But, my point is this.
A factory produced handgun, can, without modifications be very accurate. More accurate than the operator quite often.

Next, having watched many good shooters PERSONALLY do things I felt were next to impossible, I would never call anybody a liar unless we were together, they made a claim, then failed to back it up with proof. I think it is in poor taste to call a person out when you haven't met with them & given them the opportunity to prove the claims.
Besides, how do we know who anybody is with internet names vs. real names?
I was raised to be polite & respectful, even if I doubted anybody. I for one would love to meet with 44man & sit & listen to see what he has to say. I will gladly give him & anybody else the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong.

[44man]

Trophy, notice International class.Attachment 126284

[Bignutt]

I also own a 500 jrh in a bfr and when I had a scope on it and I had a good day I could shoot tomatoes at a 100. You put a better shot behind the wheel and I can believe the bfr claims that's for sure, don't see why once in a while a ruger couldn't do the same thing.

[44man]

I carried my work to the hunting fields. Nothing is more important to me then accuracy when deer hunting, There is a small place for "good enough." Good enough at 50 just cuts your range down. I do love those 20 yard shots but with at least a brace on my knees, 100 or a little over is doable. I don't like long shots. But I know my guns will do it if the nut behind it is working. I do not believe in making any gun shoot just for velocity alone.

[c1skout]

I'm a poor shot, at least in my opinion. I don't have any scopes or dots on my handguns, and do most of my testing outdoors from 25, 42, 50, and 100yds because those are the ranges that are usually available to me. I have some loads that I can regularly keep inside of 6" on the 100yd range from a rest with my 45, and I think a good pistol shot could half that with my gun. I keep records of my load work-ups and note them in my book as, for instance: Shot @ 25yds- 6 in 3.75" Best 3 in .78"

I figure that the best 3 are nearer to what the ammo-gun combo will do before I screw it up!

[robertbank]

Shooting 1" groups at 50 yards is one thing. Shooting 1" groups at 200 yards is quite another. I have hit a clay pigeon with my old Model 27 at 100 yards but that sure isn't shooting a 3" group at 100 yards or hitting the clay pigeon 10 x 10 or even regularly. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

44man you are without a doubt a very good revolver shooter, to that their is no question from me. Please don't tell me you or anyone else has shot a 2" group at 200 yards with a iron sighted revolver at 200 yards. When I say group I am talking about five shots at 200 yards with notch and post sights.

Take Care

Bob