Revolver Accuracy; Perspection, perception and reality?

[robertbank]

We haven't seen bricks of 22 ammo up here for a year now. The cheap stuff is great for plinking and likely shooting rabbits I guess. My son was shooting his CZ .22lr pistol on the week-end when the entire back of the cartridge let go leaving him with a hollow cylinder for a case and powder on his face. He wears safety glasses. First time I have heard of such a thing happening. I believe it was Winchester bulk ammo.

Take Care

Bob

[44man]

Could much of this thread not be summarized by asking will a factory revolver shoot better with select ammunition developed just for it than a custom revolver with off the shelf ammunition? Or put another way Which is more important the gun or the ammunition? Assuming a skilled shooter of course.

Yes they sure can. The ammo is what counts.
I won state with a Ruger mark II with a brand new gun and no sight settings. 57 out of 60 and all .22, 25 yard shoot off chickens at 100 yards. I missed the first pig, turkey and ram but my spotter seen the hits. Guess what bullets? WW Wildcats. Back then Rem .22's were super but they changed the bullet for faster production. Rem's went to hell. tried Eley with sad results, too slow for Rugers.
With my Anschutz bolt .22 I could put 20 shots in one hole at 50 yards with RWS-R50 ammo but could leave a ram at 100 because they were so slow. Hate a 39 out of 40. That super pistol just hated every other make ammo. Close today are CCI .22's but not perfect.
So much bull when a box of 50, .22's for 25 cents shot better then what we buy now.

[tazman]

Don't think I used "outlandish" you might want to check that. I guess when it comes right down to it, if the shoe fits wear it. If you constantly claim you shoot better with iron sights with stock revolvers than US National Champions do with scoped handguns you are not a liar you are delusional or just testing the general population for how down the gullible food chain folks dwell at. I don't think 44man is delusional so you figure it out.

Take care

Bob

Where have I made any claims about how I shot? Not in this thread or any other have I said I shot tiny groups.
You might check the first post of yours I quoted for the "outlandish" statement you made. The words I said you used are all in there.

On another note--I haven't seen a brick of 22LR ammunition around here for sale in over a year, let alone the good stuff.
I found a small box of Federal target ammunition a year ago that shot well in both my rifle and pistol. It is long since gone and I wish I could find some more of it.

[Seancass]

It's funny to hear Remington rimfire ammo spoke of positively. It's garbage these days. About 2-4 per 100 won't fire and it's been that way for several years so the obviously don't care.

I gotta admit two things here. 1: I'm relatively inexperienced and here to learn everything i can. 2: 44man is still saying a factory revolver with iron sights can out-shoot scoped single shot match guns. It's not technically impossible, but it is amoung the least likely things I've read on the internet. If he will provide insight on how i can improve, i will absolutely try it myself. To that point, thanks to this thread, i already prepared somr new ammo. Cases trimmed, uniformed and sorted by weight. Bullets sorted by weight. Powder charges weighed. Any round that felt different when seating the bullet was marked and culled. This ammo will be compared to my standard slapped together ammo to see if there is a significant improvement. Hope the shooter doesn't ruin the whole test thru incompetence.

[tazman]

It's funny to hear Remington rimfire ammo spoke of positively. It's garbage these days. About 2-4 per 100 won't fire and it's been that way for several years so the obviously don't care.

To that point, thanks to this thread, i already prepared somr new ammo. Cases trimmed, uniformed and sorted by weight. Bullets sorted by weight. Powder charges weighed. Any round that felt different when seating the bullet was marked and culled. This ammo will be compared to my standard slapped together ammo to see if there is a significant improvement. Hope the shooter doesn't ruin the whole test thru incompetence.

The only Remington"bulk" 22LR ammo I have is a few 100count boxes from when they still sold for $1.95 a box. I will have to take some out of storage and see if they still shoot. They used to do just fine but that was a long time ago.
I am also in the testing phase of setting up some "match" pistol ammunition for my 38 special and 357mag. It will be interesting to see how it works. My eyes won't let me see well enough to aim at distance but if it give substantial improvement at my normal ranges I will be a happy camper.
Of course that would just provoke me to try the longer distances anyway just to see what I can accomplish there.

[Seancass]

tazman, I'm in the same boat. With iron sights, the operator is the weak link. I do have the scoped blackhawk and it performs pretty well. I plan to repeat the test with the 44M.

[tazman]

I would still be the weak link with a scoped handgun. I have a nasty tendency to jerk the trigger in anticipation. A bad habit I developed during years of shooting clay targets. I still fight it even after 35 years.
I am doing a lot of work to control it and it is getting better.
I need to get a scoped handgun setup but I am not certain I would still be married after the recent purchases I have made. I guess it will have to wait a while.

[ole 5 hole group]

It's funny to hear Remington rimfire ammo spoke of positively. It's garbage these days. About 2-4 per 100 won't fire and it's been that way for several years so the obviously don't care.

It just might be the firearm, as I've heard that from a lot from people but myself and others don't have a problem with Remington 22LR's. I have had no problem getting 22's for the past year or so. They come in on a regular basis to Fleet Farm located in Brainerd, Minn. I don't live there but have a friend who does and he purchases a value pack or bucket for me whenever it became available. $21.99 plus tax for the value pack - sometimes 22.99 - the bucket ran $58.99 plus tax - there's 1400 rounds in the bucket. The vast majority of 22 ammo was Remington with just a little from Federal, CCI and Winchester. They always seemed to have Eley but those puppies are expensive and should probably have a purpose to be purchased and shot.

Remington accuracy at 25 yards with a scoped 1022 is pretty good - most everything will stay inside a quarter and sometimes a nickel or dime but larger than a quarter sized groups are not the norm but they do come alone just to keep ya guessing - there are a few fliers of course but not many in a value pack. The groups are 10-shot groups by the way. I have an 8yoa grandson who shoots 12 gauge hulls off the 25 yard berm as fast as he can line up the sights and pull the trigger - I started only loading 3 rounds in the mag to extend his shooting time, as a value pack would be gone in an hour loading 10!!! The boy really needs a bolt action single shot.

As far as misfires - maybe a couple at most in a value pack - my daughter & SIL went through a bucket in a couple weeks time and she said she only remembered one misfire and it fired when loaded a second time. We shoot the Remington's in two 1022's, a single 6, a Ruger Mark II, a Winchester 75 and occasionally my S&W 41. My daughter has a fancy looking S&W auto but I don't know the model number but it shoots anything you want to put in the mag. At the range I also see a few 22 rounds on the cement that didn't fire but the vast majority will fire if loaded up again.

I know some 22 firearms just don't like a certain brand because I've heard their owners complain about it and that covered all the ammo bases with a lot of people complaining, as I've heard Federal, Remington, Winchester CCI doesn't work - either causing jams, failure to fire etc. I've experienced those problems also - but rarely and really don't even think about it as when we pull the trigger on our 22's, they just go bang and the bullet goes downrange and usually hits what we intended it to hit.

I edited my original group size, as I went downstairs just to check out a few targets saved from the grandkids - they were a little bigger than I thought?!#* I probably shot the dime to nickel size with the Winchester 75.

[Seancass]

A LOT of shooters complain that scopes show too much movement and it upsets their shooting. My logic is, you're shaking anyways. Either you see it in the scope and you practice getting more steady, or you never see it and keep shooting shakey groups wondering what's wrong with you gun! I shoot ok with it, but I'm working on improving my iron sight shooting.

Edit: On 22, I don't remember exactly which Remington bulk it was(Thunderbolts?). 2 weeks ago, i shot about 100 rounds and had 3 or 4 misfires(sorry I didn't take exact notes!) This was right a 22/45. I tried them again, and then tried them a third time in a single six. Three solid dents and no bang.

[tazman]

The scoped revolver would be a rested shooter for me. Either from bags at target or rested on something(creedmore?) while hunting. I don't have the confidence to try it any other way at first.

[Seancass]

The scoped revolver would be a rested shooter for me. Either from bags at target or rested on something(creedmore?) while hunting. I don't have the confidence to try it any other way at first.

Only downside is shooting it on the pistol line at the range at 7-25 yards and feeling like an idiot at such short ranges. You're right, it has become a bench tool, for the most part.

[apen]

I tried some remington target in a woodsman and about 1/10 didn't fire. Of the ones that did, about 1/8 had split cases. I never tried it in my conversion unit. Pistols can be very 22 ammo sensitive.

[dtknowles]

You describe a post as outlandish, unbelievable, and nonsense but still claim you have not called him a liar? You might as well go ahead and use the word since you dance around it so closely.
The difference you claim is no difference at all.

I think there is a rule against name calling. You can say a person is not tell the truth but you can't call him a liar.

Tim

[robertbank]

Where have I made any claims about how I shot? Not in this thread or any other have I said I shot tiny groups.
You might check the first post of yours I quoted for the "outlandish" statement you made. The words I said you used are all in there.

On another note--I haven't seen a brick of 22LR ammunition around here for sale in over a year, let alone the good stuff.
I found a small box of Federal target ammunition a year ago that shot well in both my rifle and pistol. It is long since gone and I wish I could find some more of it.

Tazman I wasn't referring about you.

We can get stingers for about $9.00/box of 50. I can shoot my 9MM with reloads cheaper than that.

Bob

[tazman]

Okay, I can accept that. Perhaps I am being a bit touchy on the subject.

I haven't seen stingers in 2 -3 years at any price. I found a box of 100 CCI mini mag 22lr today. It will be interesting to see how they shoot.
And yes, I can shoot my cast reloads cheaper than the 22lr as well, but right now I need to concentrate on trigger control. The 22 makes it easier for me.

DTKNOWLES-- Thanks for reminding me of that. I don't remember ever calling anyone on the site names except for possibly myself. It is always good to remember the rules.

[robertbank]

I think there is a rule against name calling. You can say a person is not tell the truth but you can't call him a liar.

Tim

Tim a comment that is outlandish, unbelievable or nonsense does not imply the person is lying. He may just be exaggerating an event beyond the realm of possibility. One has to draw from ones life experiences. I would assume for instance those who win National Championships tend to be the best shooters a nation has to offer. Who would argue with that. So when I read results that are better than long standing records I have a tendency to disbelieve.

You would not have found me at Jonestown either. When guys claim they are the 2nd coming I tend go back to reading a book. Most I suspect would .... some don't..

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Okay, I can accept that. Perhaps I am being a bit touchy on the subject.

I haven't seen stingers in 2 -3 years at any price. I found a box of 100 CCI mini mag 22lr today. It will be interesting to see how they shoot.
And yes, I can shoot my cast reloads cheaper than the 22lr as well, but right now I need to concentrate on trigger control. The 22 makes it easier for me.

DTKNOWLES-- Thanks for reminding me of that. I don't remember ever calling anyone on the site names except for possibly myself. It is always good to remember the rules.

A guy I shoot with swears by them. I think he likes them for gopher shooting. I just plug away with bulk when I have it on hand. I shoot a Ruger 4.2" 22lt revolver for practice and it is fun. I have no idea where all the .22 is going. Over in Saskatchewan in the spring the big thing now is gopher shooting. A couple of guys here drive 4K Km to shoot gophers. Who would have guessed? We used to drown them out and wack them with WW1 bayonets when we were kids. Now guys treat it as a hunting sport. Things have changed on the prairies.

Take Care

Bob

[tazman]

I know you are very pointedly not directing that at me but I will respond anyway.
I can't argue with anything that you said except for the first sentence. I have to disagree with that concept. I feel it definitely does imply a person is intentionally speaking false.
There was a time in this country, several decades ago I will admit, that expressing disbelief in that manner would get a person an invitation to a fight or worse almost instantly. Things may have been more polite then. I don't know as I wasn't there. I guess times change.

[cbrick]

but right now I need to concentrate on trigger control. The 22 makes it easier for me.

What center fire gun are you shooting? What is the trigger pull? How much creep in it? How much over travel?

Rick

[tazman]

I just purchase a Smith & Wesson K38 Target Masterpiece that predates the model 14. I haven't weighed the trigger and don't have the scale to do so.The pull weight is less than any revolver I own except the 22 which feels identical to me.
It has an over travel stop built in. In single action mode I am not sensitive enough to detect creep in this trigger. I just start the squeeze and it breaks when I get to the weight.
The cartridges are 38 special loaded with 150 grain SWC over a charge of 3.5 grains of Bullseye. The recoil is not an issue unless subconsciously. The 22 has a heavy barrel and has no recoil whatsoever which is why I like to practice with it. I don't need to give any thought to controlling the gun, just my shooting form.
I am open to any suggestions or practice scenarios that might help.