Revolver Accuracy; Perspection, perception and reality?

[cbrick]

Thanks for the compliments Bob.

Yes, shooting the shoot-offs at 200 meters has everything to do with 50 meter groups. Re-read post #345. Shoot-offs are conducted on a bank of 5 targets. Shooting is timed and you have two minutes to shoot five shots, one at each of the targets from left to right. Any target shot out of that order is a miss. After the first 5 shots there is a cease fire and the targets are reset and another string of 5 targets in two minutes. Shoot-offs are 10 shots at 1/2 size targets at 200 meters. In International championship competition shooting a score that gets you into a tie breaker shoot-off is simply a score that got you into the match (the shoot-offs, for me the real match) for the championship. Do not take a revolver score that gets you there lightly. Shooting an 80 round match to get you into the shoot-offs is not a gimme by any stretch of the imagination. If you and/or your revolver cannot do better than the 2 1/2 inches at 50 that 35 Remington keeps mentioning you don't need to worry about the shoot-offs, you won't be in them. So yes, the shoot-offs have everything to do with it.

I don't have stacks of targets because I didn't work up loads or practice on paper targets, I did both on the targets I shot at in a match. I used the steel swingers set up at the range such as below. paper targets were a rarity and not nearly as useful as the real deal. These targets are the sight in targets used during the match, they are permanent and don't fall over as you can see from the hangers they are welded to. I had a few pics of some of these targets I fired but most didn't make it onto this computer. Below is five shots on the 150 meter 1/2 size turkey (4 1/2 inches belly to back) from a scoped FA 41 mag while I was working up loads.



Rick

[jmort]

He said he was bowing-out of the thread, and then came back, unfortunately, and now we have this.

[cbrick]

He said he was bowing-out of the thread, and then came back, unfortunately, and now we have this.

Ah, it's great fun. He just keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole. He continues to ignore statements of what is being done and all the while demanding from others what he wants as proof. Can't get this high level of comedy entertainment on the TV.

Just like in the pit and having fun with the trolls there, good clean fun and free amusement.

Rick

[Hickok]

"Im with Hickok: 1.5-2" groups at 25 is pretty dang good for me"

FWIW, I agree. I also believe revolvers can shoot much better than most people think.

Thanks DVNV I appreciate your saying that!

I sure didn't want these fella's getting so worked up over this.

[robertbank]

Rick please, quit talking about hitting targets out long distances. Stick with the topic at hand. 1/2" groups of five at 50 yards using iron sights with a box stock revolver. Scoped handguns shot in the competitions you quote are hardly "out of the box guns" we both know that. Trigger jobs may have not been performed if that counters a rule of the sport but dry firing and lots of practice solves a rough trigger over time and accomplishes much the same thing as a trigger job.

I have only shot a scoped revolver on one occasion, my interests lie elsewhere, and it was like shooting a short rifle. Scopes do wonders for accuracy - see my comments regarding my old Longbranch using Lyman's 314299 bullet.

I will accept your post as at least an acknowledgement that some or all of the claims made might be a tad exaggerated. We surely can agree on that.

To the OP for me with my rather inept handgun skills I can say without hesitation my two DA/SA revolvers, are more accurate than I can hold and more than any of my pistols. My small collection of SAA revolvers are not as accurate due to the absence of decent sights. My Ruger BH ranks somewhere between my GP-100 and older 686 S&W.

The autos I have vary quite a bit in my hands and serve the same purpose as my revolvers but in my hands are not quite as capable as the DA/SA revolvers. None are for the purpose of Bullseye shooting. No offense to those who enjoy that endeavor. I don't, just not ny temperament. The pistols do what they are designed for very well and again are much more capable in other hands than mine.

Take Care

Bob
ps Excellent shooting BTW. Scoped or not it does take talent. I am afraid either I never had it or did not have the desire to acquire it. Raising two boys and providing for my family and managing a demanding career does have it's limitations and golf is time consuming.

[35remington]

Silhouette is open sight too.

Since it was half inch at fifty that was claimed......with open sights.......from Creedmore......for an average.......what problem, exactly, lies in seeing if the revolver can do as claimed? That's what I should be doing.

since IHMSA ain't gonna let me walk down the shooting lanes during a match and try to locate just where a shot may have hit, trying to extrapolate results from a silhouette match and relating it to the above claim is utterly nonsensical.

If someone claims to do some particular thing, you ask them to do it. Not something else.

Doubtful claims that no one replicates make threads like this depressingly inevitable.

What it often is with some old dudes is "the older I get....the better I was."

Save the trouble of having to prove anything because the decrepitude crutch is there to lean on.

[45 2.1]

Thanks DVNV I appreciate your saying that!

I sure didn't want these fella's getting so worked up over this.

Hickok, it's not your fault people get bent out of shape. Don't think a thing of it. Everybody has different skill levels and some work at it a lot longer to get there than others. The level you're shooting at will allow you to enjoy a lot of activities done with a handgun....... except when you get into the handgun games. Those require a special dedication to get really good in. I can guarantee that the level you shoot is much better than a majority of shooters do from what I've seen.

[45 2.1]

Since it was half inch at fifty that was claimed......with open sights.......from Creedmore......for an average.......what problem, exactly, lies in seeing if the revolver can do as claimed? That's what I should be doing.

Yes, that is what YOU should be doing.... with a stock iron sighted REVOLVER. Nobody here is going to do your work for you or help with what you've said so far.

BTW, 44man's loading techniques do work very well, if you do as he says..... note the loading techniques part as he has described them on this site in the past. A few guys on the forum have tried those with handgun ammo and the results gave VERY accurate consistent ammo.....at long range which is the real test of what you've produced.

[cbrick]

Rick please, quit talking about hitting targets out long distances. Stick with the topic at hand. 1/2" groups of five at 50 yards using iron sights with a box stock revolver. Scoped handguns shot in the competitions you quote are hardly "out of the box guns" we both know that. Trigger jobs may have not been performed if that counters a rule of the sport but dry firing and lots of practice solves a rough trigger over time and accomplishes much the same thing as a trigger job.

I have only shot a scoped revolver on one occasion, my interests lie elsewhere, and it was like shooting a short rifle. Scopes do wonders for accuracy - see my comments regarding my old Longbranch using Lyman's 314299 bullet.

I will accept your post as at least an acknowledgement that some or all of the claims made might be a tad exaggerated. We surely can agree on that.

Bob, you need to read a bit more carefully, you must not be paying attention. Revolver class is part of the production gun category's. SCOPES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE MATCH! IRON SIGHTS ONLY IN PRODUCTION CATEGORY! My revolvers wore a scope ONLY during load development. My revolver did not wear a scope during practice and if I showed up at a match with a scope on it it would not be allowed in the revolver category. I could however shoot it in the Unlimited Any Sight category and use it to compete against 15 inch tricked out bolt guns.

200 meter shoot-offs have everything to do with it. If you can consistently hit shoot-off targets of that size often enough to win just what do you suppose the 50 meter groups would be? Bigger?

Now let's see if I can make that a bit more clear . . .

THERE ARE NO SCOPED REVOLVERS in handgun silhouette revolver category.

Or maybe saying it this way will help . . .

ALL REVOLVERS USE "ONLY" IRON SIGHTS.

If still not clear on the sights used in production revolver category let me know and I'll see if I can figure out another way to explain it.

Rick

[35remington]

And.....if a fella wanted to absolutely prove he could do something, he'd show it up front with proof that was difficult to question. He wouldn't need to make someone repeatedly ask for it.....and then come up with a reason not to deliver.

Heck, let one of his whiz bang friends shoot. I don't care.

Somebody......ANYBODY........can do i if they want. Heck, get David Bradshaw if he'a not too old by now too. My point is that it hasn't been done as a proof very credibly in this thread, and it hasn't.

[35remington]

45...one.......more.......time. Work on the reading comprehension. I can't do it.

Find someone who can. Anybody. An initial suggestion might lie along the lines of a deity or maybe Wonder Woman on a broomstick.

[runfiverun]

Wow.
....
35, please stop by a bullseye-eye match or a silhouette shoot it's almost summer they will be starting up soon.
Just walk down the line and look for the old guy shooting a Dan Wesson revolver and ask him about a 50 yard group.
That should answer all your questions.

[cbrick]

And.....if a fella wanted to absolutely prove he could do something, he'd show it up front with proof that was difficult to question. He wouldn't need to make someone repeatedly ask for it.....and then come up with a reason not to deliver.

Heck, let one of his whiz bang friends shoot. I don't care.

Somebody......ANYBODY........can do i if they want. Heck, get David Bradshaw if he'a not too old by now too. My point is that it hasn't been done as a proof very credibly in this thread, and it hasn't.

Just who here has mentioned that they wanted to prove anything? Even more to the point, who here has expressed any desire what-so-ever to prove anything to you?

What could possibly be the point of trying to prove anything on an internet forum when any proof others may need is right there at the range for all to see. The very same range they refuse to go to and witness for themselves. Far easier for you to demand others jump through hoops for you isn't it.

You want proof, that's quite easy. Learn how to do it or go to a range and watch the results of those that have worked for it.

Rick

[35remington]

Run, I go to Bullseye matches already. Nobody shoots half inch groups at fifty, nor do the handguns they're shooting in load development using a scope and all the rest they can get.

[45 2.1]

45...one.......more.......time. Work on the reading comprehension. I can't do it.

Most of us know you can't........ and we know the depth of the hole you've dug for yourself. The solution is to either keep your comments to yourself instead of challenging someone about something you can't do or put the amount of work, money, time and effort the rest of us have done to get to that point. Somehow I doubt you will do either of those.................

[35remington]

Crick, you are as right as you can be. Nobody has any interest in proof.

Thats the reason extreme doubt exists and it will continue so. So be it I guess.

[35remington]

45, lack of proof is always convenient for some. Asking for proof is a normal human reaction, and proof is easily supplied if it's done as often as claimed.

[cbrick]

45, lack of proof is always convenient for some. Asking for proof is a normal human reaction, and proof is easily supplied if it's done as often as claimed.

There is zero lack of proof. Proof abounds all over for anyone willing to go see for themselves. Proof lies in decades of scores and results.

What there is is a complete lack of desire to accommodate someone in total denial that wouldn't believe it or admit it after watching it, someone far too lazy to go see for themselves. Someone that much prefers slandering others on an internet forum. That is what there is a lack of.

As for your not being able to do it, I can tell you as a matter of fact why that is. The reason lies right there between your ears. Whether shooting or anything else in life as soon as you convince yourself that you can't you are guaranteed that you will never succeed or even come close. Fortunately not everyone has your disability.

Rick

[robertbank]

Rick with all do respect your post above mine illustrates steel targets shot by you with a "scoped" handgun or so your post states. Hitting those steel targets with one shot or more at`150 metres is not shooting a 1/2" group at 50 yards with a stock gun with iron sights. Sorry it just isn't. If it is, you have enough friends from your sport that should be able to pony up an example quick enough. I am sure they are all but a phone call away.

Here is what you posted:

" Below is five shots on the 150 meter 1/2 size turkey (4 1/2 inches belly to back) from a scoped FA 41 mag while I was working up loads."

Not only is it with a scoped gun but I am reasonably sure it is far from a stock Ruger as is a Chev from a RR.

I don;t need the lecture on what your discipline allows or consists of. It has and continues to have nothing to do with the claims made by 44man.

Too from another poster, the old bromide brought up that somehow some mystical reloading method putting together some mystical concoction of carbon and nitro will produce equally mystical results has been a flavour of some old Swede threads and I hope we are not going to see the thread wonder down that lane far. Thankfully I am on his ignore list so we may be spared.

Take Care

Bob
ps I hasten to add the long and more flustered the reply the less likely the conviction of what is stated.

[35remington]

Yet despite all that half inch results for an average for typical production revolvers at fifty yards are just as unlikely to happen as it ever was.

I personally don't influence that in any way nor do I presume to. It just is.