Revolver Accuracy; Perspection, perception and reality?

[cbrick]

How do you decide when your revolver is what is holding you back? When I was unable to consistenly get under 1 MOA groups from any rifle I owned I decided to find out if the problem was the shooter, the gun or the ammo. I got a used benchrest rifle in 6mm PPC and instantly was shooting under 0.5 MOA and worked down to under 0.25 MOA quite quickly. I decided that the problem was the other rifles I was shooting.

I have a revolver that consistently shoots between 1.5 and 2.0 inches at 25 yards shooting from bags on the bench with a scope. How do I find out whether the gun shoots better than that and I am the problem or if the gun is the problem?Tim

What I always did when needing to see what the revolver/load would do is put a scope on it, bench it and try to take me out of the equation as much as possible. Then when I was back to irons I had confidence in the gun and knew that any screw ups were me.

It's also much easier to see results of the revolver/load scoped at longer distances. For me 50 yards would be minimum though most of my testing was at 150.

Rick

[robertbank]

Gus you just nailed it. I got 8 years on you and believe me you get real comfooooorrrrrraaaaabbbbllllleee in your own skin. It is indeed all about asset allocation, time being one of those assets. I am just a little less likely to accept things as fact anymore. I also think my life experiences have given me a pretty good understanding of what is possible, what is likely and what is simply... well remote.

Take Care

Bob

[Hamish]

I just dropped into this thread in the very early 300's of the posts and have jumped all the way from there to here.

There was a claim that one half inch groups at fifty yards are not possible with revolvers. Sorry, but I have seen it. I don't remember the gentlemans last name, but, spotting for him was a lesson in humility at that particular silhouette match.

I've also seen two guys go at it, week after week, shooting five, inch and a half wide by three and a half inch tall, steel chipmunk targets at two hundred meters. The winner each week would normally hit all five, and normally the winner was whichever one could get into the other ones head. If memory serves, one fellow used an open sighted BFR, the other traded back and forth between an open sighted Contender and a scoped XP-100.

Even without personal experience, for someone to claim that just over one hole groups at fifty yards are not possible with a particular type of firearm? I wouldn't bet against it,,,,,,

[cbrick]

Put a couple of WC's through my K38 today with target loads. Still getting used to the trigger. Can't wait till it smooths up

If your interested I can get you the name of my smith, best trigger guy I've ever known of. PM me if your interested.

Rick

[dtknowles]

What I always did when needing to see what the revolver/load would do is put a scope on it, bench it and try to take me out of the equation as much as possible. Then when I was back to irons I had confidence in the gun and knew that any screw ups were me.

It's also much easier to see results of the revolver/load scoped at longer distances. For me 50 yards would be minimum though most of my testing was at 150.

Rick

I was talking about what I can get it to shoot with a scope shooting off bags on a bench. What I am trying to find out is if the groups are that big because that is the best I can shoot a centerfire revolver or if it is the best the gun can do. I can move the targets back to 50 yards but then I need a bigger target to be sure that the rounds stay on the target, not really a problem just means I have to change the targets more often.

Tim

[apen]

There was a claim that one half inch groups at fifty yards are not possible with revolvers.

You got it twisted. There was a claim that .5" groups was possible on demand.

If memory serves, one fellow used an open sighted BFR, the other traded back and forth between an open sighted Contender and a scoped XP-100.

How well do you trust your memory. I'm asking because you say "if memory serves". Was there an xp 100 guy who also tried it with a BFR and the details of the results aren't really clear...maybe.?

That's the beauty of shot groups on paper in sanctioned matches where record groups are measured and filed away in some sort of archive. Memory isn't important, you just pull the archives and look at them.

[robertbank]

Rick about the only thing consistent with you is your insulting responses. You may know something about revolver shooting but it is hidden under a contemptuous condescending dare I say arrogant manner.

You believe a stock Ruger just out of the box can shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards. Post it. Take up the offers that have been made. NOne of this a friend of a friend nonsense. You can't period. Leave out the scoped contenders, and custom Rugers.

As for your views on life. I hate to be as shallow as you appear to be. Gus pretty much summed it up and you still persist. Wrong on every count? Bob Vogel, the current IDPA Stock Service pistol champion and past World IPSC Production Champion promotes an almost vice like grip for action shooting and you think it is wrong. Right I'll file that observation under the same claim made by 44man and his 1/2" groups at 50 yards with iron sights.

Take Care

Bob

[cbrick]

Rick about the only thing consistent with you is your insulting responses. You may know something about revolver shooting but it is hidden under a contemptuous condescending dare I say arrogant manner.

Perhaps but only where it is deserved. Read on and you will see why.

You believe a stock Ruger just out of the box can shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards. Post it. Take up the offers that have been made. NOne of this a friend of a friend nonsense. You can't period. Leave out the scoped contenders, and custom Rugers.

Use the quote button and post here where I said any such thing. No, don't just keep repeating what you want others to believe, use the quote button. Post here one comment I made about a friend of a friend. Find just one post where I mentioned Contenders scoped or otherwise. Post here my quote where I mentioned even once custom Ruger's. In fact (using the quote button) find my post where I even mentioned Ruger other than to say I didn't compete with them.

As for your views on life. I hate to be as shallow as you appear to be.

Yeah, your probably right, striving to be the best you can be is pretty shallow huh?

Gus pretty much summed it up and you still persist. Wrong on every count? Bob Vogel, the current IDPA Stock Service pistol champion and past World IPSC Production Champion promotes an almost vice like grip for action shooting and you think it is wrong. Right I'll file that observation under the same claim made by 44man and his 1/2" groups at 50 yards with iron sights. Take Care Bob

Use the quote button and post here where I mentioned even once a single thing about IDPA. Post here using the quote button where anybody in this thread except you has mentioned even once mentioned IDPA or USPSA.

Everything you are saying about me is blatantly false and anyone that has read this thread will see it. Yeah, must be lil ole shallow me huh Bob. As for me being insulting keep up with all the lies about me and I'll keep on pointing them out as lies for all to see.

Pretty easy to see who is being insulting here Bob.

Rick

[M-Tecs]

Some of the claims are 1/2" at a 100 every time.

I have owned 5 or 6 S&W 29's that all did 1/2" at 50 meters with open sights. Only problem was grip sensitivity. Groups would change POI as my hold changed. new SBH hunter did 1/2" every group while sighting it in. Every single BFR has reached 1/2" at 100 yards out of box. I shot beer cans at 200 yards with 3 different SRH's. Even had a Taurus .44 here that did 1/2" at 50. HOW WRONG IS THAT? If you think you need a $3000 custom to shoot when a Ruger will make it look sick, you can't load right.

[cbrick]

Some of the claims are 1/2" at a 100 every time.

Perhaps so but not by me! Period!

Rick

[apen]

Some of the claims are 1/2" at a 100 every time.

The quote you provided makes no mention of 1/2 at 100 every time.

You did good in posting the CBA results, and that was good enough, but the quote you posted said nothing about doing 1/2 at 100 every time. Did you just plug that in? Keep it factual.

[M-Tecs]

You are correct. I misstated my intent of what I was highlighting. The claim is that every BFR has reached 1/2" at 100 yards out of box. The everytime comment was a mistake on my part.

I first started shooting handguns at long ranges in the early 70's for fun but I never shot long range handguns competitively other than a couple of IHMSA matches. NRA Bullseye only goes out to 50 yards. However I did develop an appreciation for what could be accomplished if you dedicated yourself to being the best you could be.

I did start shooting NRA HighPower in the later 80's and achieved some level of success. This type of competition is fired out to a 1,000 yards with iron sights. It is truly amazing what top level shooter can do at a 1,000 yards with irons. Unless you see it yourself most people will not believe it is possible. The same can be said IHMSA. Fanciful claims just undermine the REAL accomplishments of legitimate world class competitors and stymie real technological advancement.

What each of us believes is a “fanciful claim” is going to mostly based on our personnel perception of reality. Anytime claims are too far outside my perception of reality I will vigorously question them not to prove them false but to prove true. If true I have the opportunity to learn and increase my own ability or knowledge either as a shooter or gun builder.

[JSH]

I started off reading this threads every post with maybe the hopes of picking up some useful information. I am not going to knock anyone's ability or inability. I know, what I know and I have witnessed some very impressive shooting of all types of handguns. But I think this thread has gotten so far off track of the OP's question and intent that it is a waste. I will just go my way and ignore the rest of this.

[tazman]

I want to thank all the people who have been helping me out recently. I believe I am back on track to getting better again. I don't know if I could have gotten there without your tips.
Thank you.
tazman

[cbrick]

Hope I contributed some. Please keep us informed how it's going for you.

Rick

[44man]

Bob, once again you are wrong on every point, very common with your posts. I know there is no teaching those that already know everything so for those wishing to improve this is for you

Yep, folks sure can make up their own mind as to the level of achievement they wish to achieve. There has been no lecturing in this thread with the exception of those that have imposed limitations on themselves and want others to do the same. No one, not me or anyone else has told anyone that they must do anything. Others that wish to improve their shooting have asked specific question to which they were given specific answers. Answers that don't seem to sit well with those that settle for mediocrity and try to convince others to do likewise.

As for scopes on my revolvers, you bet I do. When I am working up a load I want to know what the gun/load is doing by taking as much of me out of the picture as possible. I am not practicing or shooting a match, I am working up a load. No idea why anyone would be so upset with that.

As a matter of fact I have had cataract surgery in both eyes, so what? As for the cutting the forcing cone that you so adamantly promote, I have never had the forcing cone cut on a single revolver. Never! It's those that settle to be mediocre that blames his tools. How many forcing cones have you had cut Bob?

Yep, the grip I recommended no doubt wouldn't work well in USPSA or IDPA. But that kinda brings up the question . . . Who the h*ll here is talking about USPSA or IDPA? Can't say I've ever seen anyone grouping from the bench "speed shooting" but then I've never watched Bob shoot so . . . I've said in other posts in this thread that this is not defensive or combat shooting. That is an entirely different shooting discipline. We (not Bob, he's on his own agenda) are discussing accuracy shooting with the revolver.

Be the best you want to be. Yes, there is something we agree on. For those that wish to improve be the very best you can be. Never settle for less. Never let someone that has admitted in post after post, page after page that they cannot do it, admitted over and over that they settle for mediocrity tell you that you should also.

Rick

Some should read this. you make the gun shoot first, any way you can then when you miss, it is YOU ONLY.
Too many think a custom or a $2500 revolver will solve it. Your sad butt is behind the gun.

[44man]

Some of the claims are 1/2" at a 100 every time.

Not be me either although I have done 1/2" at 100 many times with BFR's.
ON DEMAND is a harsh thing asked by those that can't make 2" at 25 yards.
I never ask for "on demand" because it is stupid. You are human with all the worst all of us have.
So if you brag about a 2" group at 25 yards, do I want your load? Go back to grade school.

[monge]

Learned that with trap shooting some days 50 straight eyes are on the birds others its hard to brake 20. we all have good days and bad. All my guns shoot better than I do most of the time . I do my home work and get the boolit size and powder and lube and load data rite then its up to me to make the holes touch!

[44man]

Some of the claims are 1/2" at a 100 every time.

Not even mentioned at all, just that some were done. More then you can accept anyway.
If you think a SRH, SBH or SBH Hunter or BFR can't shoot out of box, I will not believe you at all because your poor shooting and flinching will show all how bad the guns are.
I stated the BFR's reached 1/2" at 100 and they did. But you inserted "ON DEMAND" not me.

[45r]

I can't shoot half inch at 50 but can shoot 1 inch off a rest with a scoped F/A 454,S&W44mag from the PC, and scoped Bisley hunter 41 mag.
I fire-lapped the 41mag.
Revolvers can be plenty accurate.
Same grip position and hold tension is needed for accurate results.
My 41mag wasn't expensive so you don't have to buy a high dollar wheelgun.