Is anyone loading smokeless powder for the 43 Spanish? What load are you using with a 300gr PP bullet?
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Is anyone loading smokeless powder for the 43 Spanish? What load are you using with a 300gr PP bullet?
I think it would depend a lot on the dimensions of your particular rifle. I know if I take a bore size boolit and patch it to groove size it won't fit in a fired case. So I use one a bit smaller so it's a slip fit after being patched. (ends up at .442", groove dia. is about .447".) Using a lightly duplexed load of 4759 and FFg black it shoots great and doesn't foul out. I really don't see how I could use any kind of straight smokeless and get the kind of performance from it I get from black powder, especially keeping in mind the age of the rifle and its pressure limits.
-Nobade
Maybe I am wrong . I thought some were using 4198Originally Posted by Nobade
Could be, but it won't work in my rifle. Those things are all different though, you may have one that it could work in.
-Nobade
How about Pyrodex RS
I've never tried it with PP bump up boolits, but it would probably work. Maybe somebody else here who has some experience with it can chime in - I gave up on Pyrodex about 35 years ago and didn't look back.
-Nobade
Why did you stop using Pyrodex? I have a lb and 1/2 so was just asking if it might be usable in the 43 Spanish? If so what charge would be correct?
Does anyone use Unique for a light load?
I stopped using it because it is so corrosive. I had no idea I had to completely dissasemble my revolver after shooting it with Pyrodex, and even though I cleaned it like I would with black it was pretty well ruined internally. I also work in a gunsmith shop and get to look at a lot of barrels with a bore scope. Whenever I see muzzleloaders with pitted bores that look like they were fired with old corrosive primers the owners tell me they use Pyrodex.
The stuff can be used if you are very diligent about cleaning, and treat it like you would a rifle used with corrosive military ammo. Check it every day for the next few days and make sure it isn't rusting.
Loads are simple - as much as you can fit in the case with heavy compression.
-Nobade
Thank You Sir, Was wondering about the corrosive factor. Do you use any substitutes? The thought of keeping Black Powder around kind of scares me.
I have tried other subs before but not in this rifle. I do know Blackhorn 209 will bump bullets, so if you can't get one as big as the groove diameter in the case that might be a way to go. That would make for a very energetic load though, since the case holds so much. I'm burning a bit over 90gr. of BP in mine, so that much blackhorn would be quite a blast. You might want to use some filler on top of it to reduce the charge a bit, but after thinking about it, that may be the best powder to use. It's expensive but you can treat it pretty much like smokeless.
Never tried Unique, if you need to bump bullets it won't work but if you can get a big enough one in there it might work.
One other thing you could do is breech seat. A patched bullet the size of the chamber's neck could be seated with a loaded case behind it. The chamber necks are long enough generally to allow this without even having to trim the case much. That would allow the use of smokeless, and you'd only need one case which isn't a bad thing since they're about $3 each. Hmmm, I think I'll have to try this in my own rifle when the weather warms up.....
-Nobade
brstevns ... have you measured the neck of a fired case? my 43 Spanish takes a .453/454 inch boolit with a lite finger pressure. I use a 20 or 30 to 1 mix and had Accurate [Tom] build me a 400 grain mold for it [452385M]. it works very well with either black or smokeless. but that is not paperpatch.
with my patched boolits I use a 457643 400 grain boolit and run it thru my .450 push thru and after patching up ... I run it thru the .452 die with a bit of case forming wax on em and they shoot well with either black or smokeless. feller could also use the Accurate boolit in the same way.
I have a slick mold in .444 that I patch up to .452 as well but to date I have not gotten very satisfactory accuracy from it.
I would never give a smokeless load for an old military RB as they all are in different condition and have been subjected to who knows what thru their life time. I stay with blackpowder in mine just to stay on the safe side.
as was mentioned above by Nobade ... the duplex loads do very well and they require no fouling control to have a continuous shooting fun with no accuracy deterioration. many will scoff at them but in my experience ... they are the biss niss that is the best of all worlds in bp shooting. just be diligent with your powder selection and loading procedures and have a blast.
the 43 Spanish is a great round running alongside the 44-77 Remington as a sister round and both have taken buffalo as well as being a formidable round when anything is on the other end of the shot.
brass is expensive but I do not have need of sizing ... only slightly flair in the mouth to accept the next projectile. so my cases have lasted a very long time and are very solid for the use. mine are Bertram cases and fit the rim thickness as well as the rim diameter to a T as well as being stamped "43 SPANISH" ... well worth the money in my estimation.
............There is really only one true ".43 Spanish" and that is the .43 Spanish Remington or 11.15 x 58R Remington Spanish. This is a necked case. There is another Remington RB but of Spanish manufacture that is different and is the 11.5 x 57R Spanish Reformando. The Reformando is a tapered case. The .43 Spanish Remington uses a slug of .439" OD, while the Reformando used a brass jacketed bullet of .452"/.454" OD.
I have a Remington RB of the 1879 contract for Argentina. It is chambered for the 11.15 x 58R cartridge.
The 2 on the left are the Remington Spanish. The 3 on the right are the Spanish Reformando.
This is one of mine (11.15x58R) with a custom Mountain Moulds 420gr (this alloy 416grs) slug. Dan designed it for one reason, and that was to reach across the throat so as to actually touch the lands (or leade in this situation). The chamber has no throat as we commonly know it as there is no reduced diameter at the casemouth as is common. Instead the area the caseneck fit's into is cylindrical of approximately the same ID and the OD of the caseneck. In effect when a round is chambered the boolit has approximately .010" to .012" windage all around it.
The above is a 45 cal slug (.459") that was dropped into the throat and driven forward enough to engrave the lands and display the 'Leade'. The top angled like shows the angle while the 2 parallel lines shows the length of the tapered leade.
In this photo the RCBS 43-370 slug was reversed in the case and then chambered, which forced it back into the case to one again show the length of the throat (if that's what you want to call it). In the previous photo of the Mountain Mould's design, you can just barely see on the ogive where it touched a land.
The above photo shows (left) MM 43-420-RFPB and (Right) the RCBS 43-370-FPB. Both were sized down to .433" from their 'as cast' OD of .440"/.441" then patched to .440". The groove of my RB slugs just shy of .441" and ditto the throat. A slug patched to .441" is 'iffy' if it will chamber. Both are seated to touch the leade.
Sometime back I made myself a set of swage dies to use in the Rollingblock but haven't gotten around to patching or loading them yet. Years ago I did load 20 cases with BP and pure lead GG boolits and didn't know much about it. These Bertram cases will hold close to 90grs of Swiss 2Fg BP and it wasn't too long before I was trying to find some people to help me finish emptying them out, as I'd had about all the excitement I could stand.
The above targets are for 2 different boolits (Ly 439186 and RCBS 43-370) and 2 different
powders (SR4759 and H4198). They were fired at 50 yards. No voo-doo involved in loading, issue trigger and sights.
..............Buckshot
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Buckshot, Thanks for all the of good information. Was going to try the 300gr Lee 44 cal bullet PP. I have also given thought to sizing down the Lee .450 Mini that I have.
The rifle is the Model 1879 Argentine. Will know more once I get to slug the barrel etc.I would like to use smokeless powder or a sub. i really do not like the thought of storing BP in my home.
.........There is no problem for maintaining BP on your property. If you're serious about your .43 Spanish you'll slug the throat, or at least do a chamber cast.
.............Buckshot
Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.
"The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."
Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance
Yes sir, plan on slugging the bore and throat and make a chamber cast.
buckshot ... hey bubba ... lots of good info there and thanks for chiming in.
just for grins ... what does your fired brass measure in the neck with just a small flair to remove any crimp? mine is the Remington Spanish with the .439 but I have gone with the "fill the throat" theory and had pretty good luck with them ... I load .452/.453 inch boolits to fill my case neck without sizing and seems to work fairly well. just wondered about your measurement in the fired case throat to compare with mine.
.............Well for the actual .43 Spanish Remington you won't be able to seat a .452" in the caseneck and then chamber it. That is unless you drive it in with a mallet. I tried sizing a slug to .441", seating in a case and then chambering it. Wouldn't work. The case wouldn't chamber, leaving about 1/2" of the case failing to chamber and sticking out beyond of the face of the breech. The throat, or what you'd call a throat is about .464" ID, which is the caseneck OD. To chamber a case with a .452" slug you'd have to have an ID of about .476".
In my rifle the groove is .441", with 5 lands and grooves of about equal width and a 20" twist. Largest I can size a boolit and have it chamber is .440". As I mentioned, the boolit is out there hanging in the breeze with about .012" windage around it. This is the caseneck wall thickness. Distance from the casemouth to the leade is about 0.500".
A modern chamber, say for a 308 there is a ledge or step from the mouth of the case. Say the ID of the chamber at the caseneck is about .334". This is for a .308" slug and a neck thickness of say .012" and a thousandth for neck expansion to release the slug. Then ahead of the chamber you'd have a throat of maybe .309" ID. As a consequence, at the end of the chamber where the mouth of the case is you'd have a ledge of about .013" height, which would be the ID of the throat. The chamber for the .43 Spanish Remington doesn't have this ledge to form a seperate throat, or reduction in the chamber ID for the neck area.
.............Buckshot
Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always
Proud former Shooters.Com Cast Bullet alumnus and plank owner.
"The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."
Shrink the State End the Fed Balance the budget Make a profit Leave an inheritance
Your roller is a lot tighter than mine! Maybe that's why it shoots so well.....
My fired case will take a .442" boolit, and the groove diameter is .447". That's why I only shoot it with black powder, the smokeless won't bump a bullet up enough to seal the bore. The neck OD is .463 and I have wondered what would happen if I used a short case and dropped a bullet that size in the chamber with a loaded case behind it. Maybe use some really thick paper so I'm not shoving a lead slug that big into a much smaller hole....
-Nobade
it is all very interesting and I have other questions and comments but don't want to hijack this fellers thread. maybe begin another thread if the OP desires to keep this one on target so to speak. ...
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