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Thread: Black Powder Substitutes in the .30WCF---Reduced loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub Farmer&shooter's Avatar
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    Black Powder Substitutes in the .30WCF---Reduced loads

    I have a pound or two, each, of Pyrodex, Clean Shot, Clear Shot and Black Canyon that I would like to shoot up in plinking cast loads in the .30WCF. Back when I was into black powder, we were very careful not to allow a "separated charge", where the ball was not seated completely down on the charge. Since I want a reduced load at around 1200 FPS, do I have to worry about partially filling the case? Would anything less than a full case constitute the hazard of a separated charge?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Nobade's Avatar
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    You'll want to use filler to take up the space. Not too much worry about damaging the gun, but those powders don't burn right if they're not compressed some.

    I found the best way to use up old BP subs is in my Rem 870 on the skeet range. It uses a lot of powder and the whole barrel can be put in a tank of water to clean it when I'm done. Plus I throw away the hulls so no worries with them either. If you use that stuff in a rifle make sure you clean the cases and everything else really well when you're done.

    -Nobade

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Foto Joe's Avatar
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    Top off the brass with cornmeal and use the boolit to compress it down during seating. You definitely DON'T want any air space in that bottle neck brass. Black Powder really doesn't have less pressure during combustion, it just has a vastly different pressure curve i.e. not as steep. Ad an air space to it though and you could get a real nasty spike that could exceed even a smokeless load. Also keep in mind that you probably want to avoid smokeless lube although I understand that NRA50/50 works reasonably well with BP or subs, I just haven't tried it yet.

    I've loaded a bunch of BP cartridges that were never intended for real gunpowder, the process is a little labor intensive for some but they're a blast to shoot, so to speak. I almost asphyxiated myself rapid firing a Marlin lever gun in 44SPC a few years ago.

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub Farmer&shooter's Avatar
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    Thanks Nobade and Joe! What do you dump the cases into after you fire them?

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Foto Joe's Avatar
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    Some folks use a vinegar bath. Personally I use Dawn dish washing soap and a baby bottle nipple brush to just swab out the inside then rinse in hot water. Our gas oven runs about 150° because of the pilot light so I just stick 'em in the oven to dry before I tumble.

    I'm curious as to "what" you're going to shoot these out of, a '94 Winchester maybe?

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub Farmer&shooter's Avatar
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    Joe, Thanks for the tip. I had planned on shooting them in my Win. '94 ( and maybe my 340 Savage), but when I got over into Holy Black and Brass, I realized that at least the Pyrodex is really nasty stuff, several say worse than Black. My '94 is not pre '64, but it is the much better of the post '64's and has milled, not stamped parts. It is in very condition, and I sure would not want to rust it up.

    Is the Clear Shot, Clean Shot or the Black Canyon any less hygroscopic and corrosive than the Pyrodex?

    P.S. It is starting to rain noticeably here in SW Idaho, so you are going to get it.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Foto Joe's Avatar
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    There's a lot of myths out there regarding subs versus Black Powder. Is Pyrodex nasty stuff?? Yeah it is but keep in mind you're thinking of shooting this out of a rifle not a revolver or semi-auto. Your rifle cartridge if fire formed and not full length sized will seal very well in the chamber and more than likely you won't get any fouling aft of the cartridge and into the works. I would recommend though that when you clean the gun you pull the bolt and push from the receiver out to the muzzle which is my SOP even when cleaning mine from shooting smokeless. My main complaint with Pyrodex or any sub is that it's harder to light than Black Powder but that's not an issue in a cartridge.

    Since you've shot Black Powder or subs before I'll assume that you're familiar with Ballistol and hopefully you have some. I'd use Ballistol 1:1 with water and a bore brush to clean the barrel. If you don't have Ballistol handy then just use water and you should be just fine. The main thing that can and will bite you in the rear is the boolit lube. Like I said before, I haven't actually tried NRA50/50 with Black Powder but it's my understanding that it works pretty good. On the other hand, straight Alox like Lee Liquid Alox is a bad idea. The ultimate lube would be SPG, beeswax with olive oil, beeswax with mink oil 1:1 or even Crisco straight. Use any paraffin based crayon lube and you're gonna have a fun time getting the tar out of that barrel.

    As long as you clean the gun within a reasonable time after shooting you shouldn't have a problem, it's not like it will turn into an iron doorstop within hours. I'd recommend going for it with either gun and having fun. I don't know if you've ever shot BP cartridges before but they are a kick in the butt.

    As far as the rain is concerned, I'm afraid that I escaped about three weeks ago to the land of kitty litter (Arizona) where I'm quite happy reloading and casting in an unheated garage attached to my daughters house where our 5th wheel is firmly planted in the driveway. I do keep an eye on the weather up in Cody country though simply so the constant sunshine and temps in the 70's doesn't get too depressing.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check