Leading at the forcing cone

[tomme boy]

Well this thing shoots really well for me not ever shooting a revolver before. I was able to put 6 into an inch at 20 yards yesterday with the LEE 140gr SWC with 4 gr of Bullseye in a 38 case. Tried the LEE 104gr SWC but the best I could do with that one was about 1 1/4" at 20 yards.

I really noticed that I had to keep that front sight centered in the rear sight. I never really noticed this before in my other pistols I have had. This one has a little gap on either side when sighting it. Maybe my eyes were just a little better yesterday. My sugars for my diabetes have been running really good lately. I know when they are high my vision gets fuzzy. I could actually see the front sight and the dot on the target yesterday. Have not been able to do that for a LONG time.

I just ordered a new 360477 5 cavity from Al at NOE. I hope that will be a good one to play with.

[Bucking the Tiger]

I had a Ruger Super Blackhawk that did the same thing. A good gunsmith can chamfer (smooth out) the forcing cone and this will eliminate leading in the cone and usually improves accuracy. Not sure that the factory will do this, but it is worth the effort.
Ruger makes a good gun and are a great value, but with a little custom work can be really top notch.

[Love Life]

My standard load for anything from the 125gr RNFP to 178 gr 358429 is 5 gr of Unique. Works wonderfully.

[DougGuy]

tomme boy when you get it back, if it isn't to your satisfaction, or it still has tight throats I will be glad to help out. Merry Christmas!

[robertbank]

If everyone who bought a GP-100 sent their guns back to Ruger for leading in the first 1/16th inch of the barrel or for tight cylinders the shipping companies would have to put on extra staff. I did have my cylinders reamed out locally. Three of them would not allow a .356 bullet pass through them. The others stopped a .357 bullet. I still have not anything about the leading problem. I have a 686 no dash Smith that leads in the same area. I am going to switch to powder coated bullets anyway so hopefully the leading will come to an end.

Rugers are great revolvers but as my friend Al says they tend to be kit guns. I intend to get the forcing cone cut to 11 degrees on both the GP-100 and 686 and have the rifling cleaned up on the Ruger.

Take Care

Bob
ps To the OP you are not having bad luck but you do have to lower your expectations when you buy off the rack these days.

[tomme boy]

PC would not help this to stop leading. It is shaving the lead off the bullet. When I shot some 357 mags jacketed in it, it spit back at me. So it is shaving whatever goes through it.

I am not going to lower my expectations anymore. I am not going to let any more of this BS get by me. 99% of the people shoot their guns about 1 time a year and they only shoot a couple of rounds when they do. I use my guns almost every day. It is not the first gun I have sent back. And not the last. I have a Savage bolt action that is piercing primers that has to go back because of the pin hole is too big allowing the primer to flow back into the hole. I had a STI Trojan that I had to send back to them 4 times. I finally told them to refund my money. My last 1911 was a Citadel. It was having timing issues and they re fit a new barrel and throated it for cast bullets, polished up the trigger and did a trigger job and sent back 4 magazines with it. It was my most accurate 1911 I ever had.

[robertbank]

Well you are going to die a frustrated man and likely unhappy too. Good luck with your gun I am sure Ruger will deal with it. Let us know how you make out with the tight cylinders.

Take Care

Bob

[Char-Gar]

Tomme Boy....You are correct in your diagnose of the source of your leading. A forcing cone like that won't be cured by handloading. The fix is to cut or have recut the forcing cone of your barrel, or have the factory replace the barrel with one that has a good smooth forcing cone.

Thus far, I have had good luck with Rugers having good smooth forcing cones, but I have never owned a double action Ruger. Ruger screwed the pooch on your barrel.

I have had some good experience with Ruger repair service and I have had some bad experience with them as well. I just hope your experience will be a good one. Ruger tends not to listen to customer complaints, but stick some gauges on and in the firearm and if everything is within factory spec then they send it back. They don't run a custom gunsmith operation so they won't modify your revolver to suit your wishes. They will replace defective out of spec parts with new one. They replaced two barrels for me that had heat scale on the inside from the heat used to attach the front sights. However, I have never known them to correct cylinder charge hole throats.

Ruger sets their revolvers up for jacketed bullets and don't seem to be bothered by the fact they don't do well with cast bullets. That is not on their performance radar screen. A jacketed bullet doesn't mind a tight charge hole throat and it does not lead either.

The good news is the handgun's problems can be fixed pretty easy if Ruger won't do it, but you are correct that they should fix it, but they may not. The fact that you are not happy with cast bullet performance in one of their revolvers does not mean jack to them.

[DR Owl Creek]

Tomme,

Sorry to hear about the problem with your new gun. I agree with the others who said to send your gun back to Ruger for repair. While reaming the forcing cone is an easy repair to do yourself, assuming you have the right equipment, I would also have Ruger check to make sure the barrel and cylinder are bored and aligned properly. You can easily ream the forcing cone in a few minutes even if you have two left hands, and they are all thumbs. If the barrel and cylinder aren't aligned properly, it's a much more difficult fix, even for a more expert gunsmith.

I've never had a Ruger double action revolver, so I don't know much about them. While most .38/.45 caliber revolvers have an 11 degree angle on the forcing cone, Ruger apparently doesn't use an 11 degree angle on their .38/.357 DA revolvers. I looked at Brownells' gunsmithing info and it indicates Ruger uses a 5 degree angle on their .38/.357 DA revolvers. They have a 5 degree chamfer cutter for use on current Ruger revolvers, and if you want to set back a Ruger barrel, or just to duplicate the original angle on another barrel, you must use that one. It also says you can't use an 18 degree or 11 degree cutter on a 5 degree throat without exceeding maximum throat diameter, or making a compound angle. See their web site for more specific details.

If Ruger doesn't repair your gun to your satisfaction, then you can always try doing it yourself. Brownells has the "complete .38/.45 chamfering tool kits", item #080-481-000AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...?sku=080481000 . Brownells also has what they call their "basic" kit that's a good bit cheaper, but it only comes with one size cutter, so you must specify what size cutter you need (e.g. 5 degree or 11 degree, etc.), item #080-479-451AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...?sku=080479451 .

Good luck,

Dave

[tomme boy]

If they don't fix it, how would one go about just lapping the cone? Would one be able to use a brass lap and some valve lapping compound to just smooth it up? Maybe something from Buckshot to make me? I think I am going to send him a PM and ask.

[cbrick]

If they don't fix it, how would one go about just lapping the cone? Would one be able to use a brass lap and some valve lapping compound to just smooth it up? Maybe something from Buckshot to make me? I think I am going to send him a PM and ask.

No, get the right tool to do the job right, see below.

If Ruger doesn't repair your gun to your satisfaction, then you can always try doing it yourself. Brownells has the "complete .38/.45 chamfering tool kits", item #080-481-000AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...?sku=080481000 . Brownells also has what they call their "basic" kit that's a good bit cheaper, but it only comes with one size cutter, so you must specify what size cutter you need (e.g. 5 degree or 11 degree, etc.), item #080-479-451AK, http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...?sku=080479451 .

Good luck, Dave

[tomme boy]

Well UPS picked it up this afternoon. We will just have to wait and see what they do or not do?

[cbrick]

I'll bet they take care of it, why else would they be so willing to get it back if they didn't think there was a problem.

Rick

[Tar Heel]

tomme boy when you get it back, if it isn't to your satisfaction, or it still has tight throats I will be glad to help out. Merry Christmas!

^^^^^^^^^^^^ He does great work ^^^^^^^^^^

[tomme boy]

Got an email that it is on its way back yesterday. Should have it tomorrow. We will see what they did.

[robertbank]

I just had five of my revolvers forcing cones cut to 11 degrees. All but the Uberti leaded in the first sixtieth of an inch and or around the forcing cone. Weather here has been terrible but eases up in a day or two so the plan is to take the GP=100 and 686 out and run a hundred rounds through each to see if doing the cones clears the problem up. I suspect it will.

I am about to venture into powder coating. This type of coating will end the lead fouling issues something I am looking forward to.

Take Care

Bob

[youngmman]

Recut the cone yourself. Tool isn't too expensive from Brownell's. It's easy. Two different cutters available (you only need one). then you will have the tool to dress up your other guns. I had a .22 that spit lead. Now it behaves.

I have one of the Brownell's kits for truing up the forcing cones, It includes cutters and lapping tools for any revolver. After cautiously dressing up the forcing cones on all my Smiths then lapping them with grinding compound they all worked perfectly with no leading and better accuracy.

Some guns will have rifling that is shallow enough so there is a little "skidding" until the rifling catches the bullet. This will leave some lead but shouldn't result in buildup.

Honestly, from many comments on this site it seems like Ruger pays little attention to quality control anymore.

[robertbank]

Honestly, from many comments on this site it seems like Ruger pays little attention to quality control anymore.

Anymore? Ruger revolvers are kit guns and always have been. My Smith just cut all my revolvers to 11 degrees for shooting lead. He left the cones unpolished. Apparently Brownells recommends they be left a bit rough to prevent gas cutting. Who knows? We want our guns to be priced under $500 and have the quality of a $1,000 gun. I am surprised Ruger can keep their prices where they are with inflation being what it is.

Take Care

Bob

[youngmman]

Anymore? Ruger revolvers are kit guns and always have been. My Smith just cut all my revolvers to 11 degrees for shooting lead. He left the cones unpolished. Apparently Brownells recommends they be left a bit rough to prevent gas cutting. Who knows? We want our guns to be priced under $500 and have the quality of a $1,000 gun. I am surprised Ruger can keep their prices where they are with inflation being what it is.

Take Care

Bob

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag I took in lew of pay when I worked at a sporting goods store in 1964, or so, as a high school student. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The fit and finish are outstanding as are the single six my father bought a few years earlier.

I remember when Bill Ruger made the statement that for the company to make money they would have to cut out the hand work. Guess they did.

[robertbank]

I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44mag I took in lew of pay when I worked at a sporting goods store in 1964, or so, as a high school student. I wouldn't trade it for anything. The fit and finish are outstanding as are the single six my father bought a few years earlier.

I remember when Bill Ruger made the statement that for the company to make money they would have to cut out the hand work. Guess they did.

Yup about 50 years ago.

Bob