Ruger Does 45 Barrels right.

[Char-Gar]

After having fought the "leading demon" as we all have over the years, it is very nice to see it gone. I am a nostalgic type and like the 45 Colt round, although it does have it's limitations. I have two Ruger SA sixguns in 45 Colt of fairly recent vintage. One has been extensively modified by Gary Reeder of Flagstaff AZ and the other is a Lipsey's Flattop 45. Neither of these show even a smidgen of lead with my loads.

I used several different 250 - 260 grain bullets loaded over either 6.5/Bulleye or 8.5/Unique. The bullets are of medium hardness (9 - 11 Bhn) and lubed with Xylox or my home brew beeswax/Vaseline mix.

These are two great sixguns and kudos to Ruger for making smooth barrels. Neither has been polish or lapped in any way. As an aside, the charge hole throats are a uniform .4525 in the Flattop and Gary opened up the Black Hawk's throats to .453. They both get .452 bullets and shoot far better than I can hold. Many sixguns, do not require extensive work to get them to shoot well and clean.

[9.3X62AL]

Though my BisHawk's throats came undersized, its barrel was and remains EXCELLENT, no choke point at the threads or anyplace else that I can discern. Once the throats were "regulated", leading became a non-problem with any bullet at any speed.

[FlatTop45LC]

I have some lead issues with mine but I also buy my bullets...

I do think the Flat Top Rugers are the best they have ever made.

[cbrick]

There's more of that Char-Gar lumber, I think he shows them off just to make me drool.

My Blackhawk converted to Bisely 45 Colt has throats at .4523" every bit as uniform as any of my FA revolvers. The bore is as smooth as a babies hieny and I've yet to clean it or need to. Air cooled WW MP RCBS 45 270 SAA at 12 BHN sized .452 and the revolver is happy, Rick is happy, Bambi not so much.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

Though my BisHawk's throats came undersized, its barrel was and remains EXCELLENT, no choke point at the threads or anyplace else that I can discern. Once the throats were "regulated", leading became a non-problem with any bullet at any speed.

I own and have owned many revolvers and have yet to get anxious about a "thread choke". Yes, they do exist and if you bring the inside of a barrel to a high polish, they can be seen with the naked eye, if they are there. However none has ever caused accurate issues, at least as far as I can tell, holding the handgun in my two hand either standing or shooting off a bench.

Over the years, I have had two Smith and Wesson DA sixguns that leaded no matter what load I used. One I sold, the other I fixed as it was magically accuracy until the lead built up. I loaded 200 rounds of jacketed full snort loads and fired them as fast as I could load and shoot. With leather gloves on (the pistol was HOT), I dropped out the cylinder and gave several hundred fore and aft strokes with Shooter's Choice on a new brush. The handgun was then taken home, locked in a vise and the barrel polished until I thought my arms would fall off with tight patches and Semi-chrome metal polish.

When done, the inside of the barrel looked like a mirror, but never leaded again and clean up was super easy. The thread choke was clearly visible, but the magic accuracy remained so I didn't feel any need to mess with it. I still have that revolver and it is truly a wonderful sixgun.

[454PB]

I guess I'm lucky, I bought my Blackhawk .45 convertible about 30 years ago, throats are .4525", barrel is .452", and it shoots better than I can hold.

More recently I bought a Lipsey SBH Hunter in .45 Colt, and it's the same.

[Char-Gar]

I have two more Ruger SA centerfire sixguns and neither of them show the slightest tendency to lead. One is a 1963 Super Blackhawk (44 Magnum) and the others is a 1972 vintage OM Blackhawk in .357. I sent the latter back to Ruger for a new barrel and cylinder in 1995. They are both excellent handguns that have a permanent home around here.

In point of fact, I don't recall, and I have a good memory, any Ruger or Colt I have owned that were real leaders, all of those were Smith and Wesson. Of course you can make any revolver lead by force feeding it bad handloads.

[Char-Gar]

I guess I'm lucky, I bought my Blackhawk .45 convertible about 30 years ago, throats are .4525", barrel is .452", and it shoots better than I can hold.

More recently I bought a Lipsey SBH Hunter in .45 Colt, and it's the same.

I doubt you were all that lucky. Far more good handguns have been turned out than bad ones. There are folks who like to tinker with their handguns and convince others that it is 100% necessary. Some are making money by doing the tinkering and that should be noted.

There are some bad handguns and some Ruger 45 throats do need to be opened up, but not near as universal as some folks would make you think.

[Love Life]

Wonderful thread.

[9.3X62AL]

The aforementioned BisHawk is the only revolver I've had to take tools to in order to correct unfinished construction issues. I lean toward Charles' conclusion that most revolvers by mainstream makers leave the factory in pretty good order. That has been my experience, anyway.

[fecmech]

My Lipsey's Ruger .45 convertible has been trouble free right from the start. No leading and very minimal load development. Loaded the bullseye match load that I use in my wad gun, nice tight round clumps on the target at 25 & 50 yds, end of load development! I did have to start loading my SWC's even with the case mouth due to the Ruger chambers but that's it. I don't own any .45 Colt cases or dies so that cylinder is a virgin but it's throats all pin gauge at .452.

[dubber123]

I sure wish they did the one my brother bought right. It would have saved me a bunch of work.

[MtGun44]

Reamed and polished my convertible BH's throats to .453, and with .453 boolits it
is quite happy from ".45 Mag" to ".45 easy".

Bill

[MSD MIke]

My 45 convertible had small throats and I had to ream both cylinders. I still experienced leading with commercially cast bullets. Casting out of WW material and using a soft (50-50) lube almost completely cured the leading issue and going to a slower powder was the finishing touch in my gun.
My guns leading issues are what actually got me started in casting my own.
Oh ya to stay on track, my barrel is just fine. Nice and smooth.

Mike

[MtGun44]

Many have found that hard alloy and hard lube and small diam are a pretty
poor combo.

Fat, medium alloy and soft lube like 50-50 and most guns are good to go from
mild to wild.

Bill

[cbrick]

Many have found that hard alloy and hard lube and small diam are a pretty
poor combo.

Fat, medium alloy and soft lube like 50-50 and most guns are good to go from
mild to wild. Bill

Ah yes, medium alloy.

Freedom Arms several years did a study of cast in their revolvers and posted the results on their web site, It said: "To soft of an alloy at too high of velocity will lead to premature forcing cone wear".

Ok, that makes perfect sense to me except . . . What is too soft and what is too high of velocity for the too soft of an alloy? It didn't say sooo . . .

Rick

[Char-Gar]

Many have found that hard alloy and hard lube and small diam are a pretty
poor combo.

Fat, medium alloy and soft lube like 50-50 and most guns are good to go from
mild to wild.

Bill

Very very true! Should be engraved in stone somewhere.

I have watched the evolution or devolution of cast bullets over the years and wonder why folks have to learn the same lessons over and over again. When the Feds changed the law to allow interstate sales of ammo and components, garage casting businessmen sprang up like mushrooms. They bought casting machines that threw bevel base bullets because they dropped easy from the molds. The used a very hard alloy, too hard for most uses, because they could sell their bullets as "hard cast". After all everybody knew Elmer Keith has blessed the use of "hard cast" bullets, but Elmer's bullet were butter soft compared to this new generation of hard cast bullets. Throw in a useless hard wax lube designed not to come off as the bullets rolled around in the boxes during transport and you see why many people have troubles.

Now along come the water droppers and bad results continue to roll on.

I will concede there may be a use for this super hard bullets for some full snort magnum loads, but everything has to be perfect match for the charge hole throats, the barrel forcing one and the barrel proper for it all to come together. 99% of the handgun shooters will be well served by following your counsel.

[Char-Gar]

Ah yes, medium alloy.

Freedom Arms several years did a study of cast in their revolvers and posted the results on their web site, It said: "To soft of an alloy at too high of velocity will lead to premature forcing cone wear".

Ok, that makes perfect sense to me except . . . What is too soft and what is too high of velocity for the too soft of an alloy? It didn't say sooo . . .

Rick

Medium alloy = Air cooled wheel weight of 9 to 10 Bhn. hardness, or another alloy of similar hardness.

Soft alloy = Anything softer than medium alloy.

Hard alloy = Alloys that yield Bhn 11 to 15 (NO. 2)

Too hard alloys = Anything harder than hard alloy.

Soft bullet lubricant = Lube that works well in a lubesize machine without a heater.

You are correct that soft, medium and hard means different things to different people and those terms need to be quantified. The above is what I mean, when I use those terms.

[DougGuy]

GREAT thread Char-Gar! I will say this off the git go, your revolvers have beaten the odds and you have by karma, fate, luck of the draw or just plain good fortune, been the recipient of a spate of excellent ones! Not just GOOD ones, but better than average.. Chalk that up and grin a little more today...

The New Model Rugers, both Flattops and Vaqueros that I have had pass through my shop this year have been by far the most consistent and nicest production I have seen out of Newport. I have really enjoyed looking down the bores and not seeing anything but smooth shiny rifling, no hazy rings at the frame, no raised ridges pushed in by the rollmark, and I have consigned my old self to owning one in the soon enough future.

The throats, although quite consistent in size, have been running in the .4505" and .451" range, with the odd cylinder here and there that has a couple of oval throats. For factory ammo sized to .451" this is about perfect. For cast boolits sized to .452" I have yet to see one that will drop a .452" through the throats. Not saying they don't exist, and of course in my business of reaming throats, nobody sends them because they are correct, they send them because they are tight and we take good care of that in short order. Even the New Model forcing cones look pretty good for the most part, but I usually can get them a little better with an 11° cutter and a bit of a polish.

The "short and easy" way of accurizing these modern revolvers is simple. Address the cylinder throats, make them round and even in size, address the forcing cone, recut it to 11° and lightly polish, then either remove one leg of the trigger return spring and let it hang, or simply swap in a Wolff 30oz spring, this makes it much easier to hold the sights motionless during lock time. For the money and time invested, these 3 things are the best bang for the buck you can do to a new Ruger to get it to shoot cast boolits accurately.

The rest of the combination comes from one's skill and knowledge at the loading bench, hands on the grips, eyes on the sights and finger on the trigger.

A BIG +1 on the softer alloy! People don't realize there is a direct relation between hardness, rifling twist, and velocity! I got leading with hardcast boolits no matter what I did. The alloy that you can scratch with a thumbnail, is about PERFECT for the size of lands and grooves and the 1:16 twist of the Ruger rifling in .44 and .45 caliber revolvers, even up to 1200f/s it works well with no really noticeable leading. I too don't clean my bores any more, they are black with lube from previous shots and there is a lube star at the muzzle.

Since I have been on this forum I have learned about things like 50/50 and 2% and 20:1, 40:1, and Felix lube, and other soft lubes. A BIG thank you to all the members here that have helped me along the way to where I am now, you have made an appreciable difference in my choices of alloy, boolit style, and the size of my GROUPS!

[FlatTop45LC]

Wow a lot of good info here!

Time for me to do two things - get into casting and in the mean time get some 12bhn boolits!