30 carbine Blackhawk and 32-20 brass

[9.3X62AL]

I still haven't tried the 32/20 brass in my 30 Carbine BH. 30 Carbine ammo runs fine, so if it ain't broke I don't try fixing it.

[Outpost75]

Firing a .30 carbine Blackhawk with “full charge” loads is unpleasant without adequate ear protection. Lake City 1944 Ball ammo gave 1586 fps from my 7-1/2” Blackhawk, versus 1981 fps from a WW2-era Inland US Carbine.

Cast bullet loads in my Ruger, using minimum charges which reliably cycle the M1 Carbine, gave about 1500 fps. When fired from the M1 carbine they approximate full charge .32-20 loads suitable for the Winchester 1892, giving 1600-1700 fps and better accuracy than Ball ammo. I standardized on 7.4 grains of Olin Auto Comp, measured with the RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #9. This tames muzzle blast in the Ruger to moderate levels, functions the carbine reliably, gives excellent accuracy, and drops the empty brass from the carbine at your feet. Accuracy is good up to 1500 fps in the Ruger revolver without leading. It’s easy to ring a 12” gong at 100 yards with the Ruger from a standing 2-handed position. The best cast loads from the Inland carbine produce ten-shot sandbagged groups at 100 yards of 3-4 inches with iron sights, versus 5-6 inches for WCC44 and LC44 Ball ammo. My best cast bullet loads use Accurate 31-100T cast 15 BHN and sized .311” with Lee Liquid Alox.

In .32-20 brass I load 4.5 grains of AutoComp with the same bullet for use in my 1920 Savage sporter and 1924 Colt Police Positive. I don't load any .32-20 rounds heavier than that, so that I can't make the mistake of inadvertently putting a hot load in the Colt. When fired in the .30 Carbine Ruger my .32-20 loads give about 1000 fps from the 7-1/2" barrel and are effective on small game, so that you can "eat right up to the bullet hole," as well as being accurate and pleasant to shoot.

New Starline .32-20 brass is held within 1.280- 1.285 inches, the same as their .30 Carbine brass. So I use the brass type for load identification. I do not assemble any "full charge" loads in .32-20 brass. I use .32-20 brass to identify low-power small game loads. The .30 Carbine brass is used only for high velocity "Ruger-and-M1 Carbine Only" varmint loads. All loads assembled in .32-20 brass are at appropriate levels which are safe in old revolvers. This is a fail-safe to prevent the possibility of getting a "hot Ruger load” into older gun. I do use WSR small rifle primers in .30 carbine brass, but Remington 1-/2 small pistol primers in .32-20 brass.

Cylinder throats of some Ruger .30 Carbine revolvers may be found as tight as .307-.308” diameter. Cast bullet diameter is limited by chamber and brass dimensions to no more than .310” if using .30 Carbine brass. Some users hone their .30 Carbine cylinder throats to .312,” which enables using the same bullets as for the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal. Starline .32-20 brass is thinner walled than .30 Carbine brass, which provides adequate neck release clearance for the larger bullet diameter. The New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine cylinder does not have recessed case heads as did earlier guns. There is adequate head clearance for Starline .32-20 brass and this adaptation works very well.

My Ruger Blackhawk revolver dates from 1977 and came with .310 cylinder throats from the factory. I find this ideal. Cast bullets sized .310" which “fit” give excellent accuracy. While .310 cylinder throats are not “optimum” for the .307-.308 jacketed bullets loaded in factory FMJ or soft point .30 carbine ammunition, my revolver is still more accurate than my WW2 GI carbine!

While my favorite 7.4 grains of AutoComp in .30 Carbine brass doesn’t give the highest velocity when fired in the M1 carbine, it equals the velocity of GI ammunition fired from the Ruger revolver and does so with less muzzle flash and blast, and better accuracy using less powder.

The 4.5 grain charge of AutoComp in .32-20 brass is a near factory-duplication load for the pre-WW2 Remington-UMC Kleanbore "Dogbone" logo ammo, giving 900 fps from my 1924 Colt 5" Police Positive with 0.005" cylinder gap. If your older Colt or S&W .32-20 revolver has large cylinder throats which require a .314" bullet, Accurate 31-105T is the correct answer, but in loading .32-20 for the Ruger .310" is the maximum useable bullet diameter.

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[Honestly Evil]

If I run across so much 30 carbine and 327 brass, what is the point of going through the brain damage of trying to reform a 32-20? Thats one of the more popular specialty cases i am asked about.

How close is the 32-20 case to the 30 car after necking it down?

[9.3X62AL]

Dimensionally, the exterior specs are pretty close. It is no state secret that the 30 Carbine was derived from the 32/20 HV. The cases differ structurally as described by Oupost75 above.

One of the "draws" to using 32/20 brass in the 30 Carbine Blackhawks was that a lot of carbine-fired brass would not resize sufficiently in reloading die sets (read that--RCBS tungsten-carbide 30 Carbine die sets) to fit in the rather skinny chambers found in Ruger BHs in 30 Carbine. My die set is an RCBS steel-sizer set, and it sized brass fired in my Rock-Ola M1 and Marlin 62 enough to fit in my BHs. I suspect that the thinner 32/20 brass sizes better in some dies and gets along with the BH chambers better for this reason.

[El Bibliotecario]

In 1969 I bought a .30 carbine Blackhawk. Carbine brass had to be trimmed after virtually every handloading or else the cases protruded far enough from the chambers to hang up the cylinder. The weapon was very accurate, but for practical use a .357 revolver was superior. I sold the .30 Blackhawk...

...and twenty five years later bought another, thinking I might have learned something in the intervening time. Since I have difficulty cocking a Blackhawk with one hand I had the new .30 reconfigured to the Bisley pattern. I began reloading 32-20 cases with 11.0 grains 2400 and wheel weight 115 grain. 308 gas check Lee bullets. I no longer have to constantly trim the cases, and I resized the 32 20 cases in a .30 carbine die, which necessitated adding a step to the reloading process to neck down the 32 20 cases to accept the .308 bullet. I haven't shot them enough to obtain conclusive results, but sense this shortens case life, causing neck splits. I am too lazy to anneal them.

If I were to do this over again:

(1) I wouldn't do it.
(2) But since I already ignored (1), before I did the Bisley conversion I would try installing a lower Super Blackhawk hammer.
(2) Having satisfied an irrational interest in this cartridge/weapon combination, I would buy a long barreled Single 7 in .327.

[Pressman]

Your post was great and informative. As a former owner of one of these guns your experience was interesting to read, especially the Bisley conversion. I have two that have been converted to Bisley hammer and trigger leaving the Blackhawk grip that I enjoy very much.
I restored your post and removed the offending words.

[pworley1]

Interesting discussion. My 30 carbine Blackhawk has never given a problem with 30 carbine loads.