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Thread: Reloading data for Nobels powders.

  1. #1
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    Reloading data for Nobels powders.

    G'day Kind folks out there in Galena Land,

    I have a small problem; namely, back in '88 I received 3 tins of powder from the local dealer; free. I think he could not sell them and I did a small job for him at the time.

    At the time I was working most of my loads with other powders (IMR & ADI).

    Unfortunately, I need to get rid of some of my powder stock and these have risen to the surface BUT in the intervening years; all reloading data for these powders have disappeared off my 'radar scope' (library).

    The powders are all NOBELS powders starting with Pistol No.2 (NL9414), Rifle No.2 (NL9133) and Rifle No.0 (NL8968). I believe the 'NL' prefix numbers are lot numbers.

    I do not know what calibres they would even be suitable to reload with but I have available .222 Rimmed (.222 REM); 7.62 x 39; .308 WIN; .303 Brit.; .38 x 55 and .45/70 rifle cals.

    Pistol at present is only .38 Spl/.357 Mag.

    If you can help me locate some data for these powders in the mention calibres it would be appreciated. Otherwise I will need to burn it off and thats a waste.

    John
    John, a.k.a. Tiny or Stretch

  2. #2
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    Modern Reloading (1st Edition) by Richard Lee has some loads for the 222 Magnum in Rifle 2. All I found there for Pistol 1 is under 32 ACP. He does show quite a few loads for Rifle 0, 1, and 2 in the listings for the 375 H&H, which may help compare these to other powders listed.

    Sorry, but that's all I've got.
    "The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman and a slave."
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  3. #3
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    reloadersnest.com/burnrates

    I had this site book marked
    They list some of the Nobel powders

    It might give you a idea where to start

    John

    [
    Yea, thou I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    And I carry a SIG

  4. #4
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    John, I have IMI Australia's booklet, "Reloading Recommendations "Nobel" Rifle, Revolver and Pistol Powders for the Handloader", from more than 20 years ago I guess, and it covers Rifle Nos 0, 1 and 2, Revolver No 1, and Pistol Nos 2 and 3. It runs to 23 pages so I'm not too sure how to get the information to you.

    Seems like those powders must be pretty old - you might want to check whether they look and smell right.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjohn View Post
    The powders are all NOBELS powders starting with Pistol No.2 (NL9414), Rifle No.2 (NL9133) and Rifle No.0 (NL8968). I believe the 'NL' prefix numbers are lot numbers.

    I do not know what calibres they would even be suitable to reload with but I have available .222 Rimmed (.222 REM); 7.62 x 39; .308 WIN; .303 Brit.; .38 x 55 and .45/70 rifle cals.

    Pistol at present is only .38 Spl/.357 Mag.


    John
    The IMI booklet covers 222, 308, 303 British, 38 spl, and 357 mag. It does not list 7.62x39, 38-55 or 45/70. On the other hand it has most of the traditional Australian calibers and even some traditional weirdos like 22 K Hornet, 303/22 full length, 310 Cadet, 318 Rimless Nitro Express, 38/40 W Revolver, 41 Long Colt, 44 Russian, 455 Webley Revolver, and even 455 Webley Self-Loading, which I think was the semi-rimmed round from the big WW I automatic pistol - my vague recollection is that the Webley-Fosbery Automatic Revolver used the ordinary 455 Revolver round. Anyway, it was a nostalgia trip just to read the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy one View Post
    John, I have IMI Australia's booklet, "Reloading Recommendations "Nobel" Rifle, Revolver and Pistol Powders for the Handloader", from more than 20 years ago I guess, and it covers Rifle Nos 0, 1 and 2, Revolver No 1, and Pistol Nos 2 and 3. It runs to 23 pages so I'm not too sure how to get the information to you.

    Seems like those powders must be pretty old - you might want to check whether they look and smell right.
    The tins have never been opened and always stored in an old gutted fridge used for a powder cabinet.

    Apart from a slight rust on the top panel of the cans they show no other signs. I will open the cans when I have the data and check the powder before loading.

    I will PM you a PO box number.

    John.
    John, a.k.a. Tiny or Stretch

  7. #7
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    Nobels (Nobel Sport) was purchased by a French consortium back in the mid 90's. The powder is now marketed as Nobel Sport.

    If you can find a powder burn rate chart that places your powder close to those listed in the linked pdf file from Nobel Sport, you should be able to approximate a starting charge for each load.

    Nobel Sport Powder Chart (PDF file)

    If you need any help with the French translations, just PM me the text or page number.
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    I have used the Nobel powders and like them for some loads, but I haven't seen a can of the stuff in a long while. Thanks for the loading info.

    Jerry
    Honor is a Way of Life

    NRA Benefactor Life Member

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    i have a nobel sports reloading manual from the late 90's( i believe cant find a date)

    when you decide to actually use the powders ask away i'll let you know what it says.
    and try www.snpe.com
    its listed on the back of the book

    may help may not....

    mike
    only accurate rifles are interesting

  10. #10
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    IMI made powders in Britain under the Nobel brand, but were not related to the Dynamit Nobel organization in Sweden. John's powders are pretty sure to be the British ones; I'll snail-mail him a photocopy of the booklet later today. John, you'll still have to do experimental work if you are going to develop loads for cartridges they did not list - I won't insult you will warnings about how to do that and what residual risks would be involved, because your prior posts indicate you are an experienced loader and experimenter. I hope inexperienced reloaders will not get the impression that it is safe or sensible to do this themselves. Use reliable reloading data, preferably several sources, and discuss with experienced reloaders as well.

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    Grumpy one The package arrived today, thank you very much, it should prove to be extremely helpful.

    Thank you again,
    John.
    John, a.k.a. Tiny or Stretch

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    You're more than welcome John, it makes me feel good about my lack of attention to culling my files of old data.

  13. #13
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    You have british made Nobel powders. When I first started reloading, in the mid 1970's, they were all that were available here.

    Pistol 2has similar applications to Unique.... but it seem to be specifically formulated for mil. spec. 9 m.m. I never used it but several people I knew who did told me it was outstanding in 9m.m. but results varied from absolute **** to down right dangerously unpredictable in any thing else.

    Rifle 2 is a medium slow burner for 7.62 NATO, .303 and the like.

    Rifle 0 is real slow, probably originating with .50bmg use, loading data showed it's use in the Weatherby magnums.

    I mainly used pistol No.3, similar to bullseye but cleaner, in my .45 ACP and Revolver No.1, similar to 4227, in my M29.

    Interestingly the person who produced the loading data for the Nobels book was obviously a cast bullet nut as there was a good amount of cast bullet data in the book, even for the Weatherby and Holland & Holland magnums. This wasn't the usual, for the time, pip squeak data using pistol and shotgun powders with no velocity exceeding 1600 fps but full power stomping loads.

    A lot of Hodgdens powders were made by Nobel's in scotland.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigjohn View Post
    G'day Kind folks out there in Galena Land,

    I have a small problem; namely, back in '88 I received 3 tins of powder from the local dealer; free. I think he could not sell them and I did a small job for him at the time.

    At the time I was working most of my loads with other powders (IMR & ADI).

    Unfortunately, I need to get rid of some of my powder stock and these have risen to the surface BUT in the intervening years; all reloading data for these powders have disappeared off my 'radar scope' (library).

    The powders are all NOBELS powders starting with Pistol No.2 (NL9414), Rifle No.2 (NL9133) and Rifle No.0 (NL8968). I believe the 'NL' prefix numbers are lot numbers.

    I do not know what calibres they would even be suitable to reload with but I have available .222 Rimmed (.222 REM); 7.62 x 39; .308 WIN; .303 Brit.; .38 x 55 and .45/70 rifle cals.

    Pistol at present is only .38 Spl/.357 Mag.

    If you can help me locate some data for these powders in the mention calibres it would be appreciated. Otherwise I will need to burn it off and thats a waste.

    John
    Hi there.
    New to here, but not to loading.

    Dug up my Nobel loading data, and am unsure of how much help I can be, but will try.

    My data is from late 1990's.

    First off, I find nothing to the powders mentioned, and it appear that most of their powders are handgun powders.

    I SUSPECT that Pistol #2 might be "SP-2" double-base, flattened-spherical powder, fabulous for .45acp and 38 Super.
    Usable in 9mm Parabelum (Luger), 357 magnum, 40 S&W, 10mm, .44 Magnum. A fairly slow burning powder.

    I am also looking at a relative burn rate chart on Reloadersnestmessage board, where I just found Nobel "RIF-0" @ #207 on the list, between Hodgdon 414 and Nobal Vectan Tubal 5000.

    "RIF-1" is @ 161 between Accurate 2230 and Winchester 748.

    There's "RIF-2", missed it, #146, between Alliant Reloader 7 and IMR 3031.

    Pistol-3 is there, @ #11, but no Pistol-2.

    The SP2 falls in @ #94 between Rotweil P806 and Vihtavuori N350

    I have been very fond of Win748 for .308 since I started loading it in the 1980's, from 110gr to 150 gr bullets. Rif-1 should be good there.

    Hope that was some hind of help.

    Best of luck.

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    Reloading data for Nobels Powder.

    Hi Big John.
    Hope you haven't burnt the Noble Powders,as I was looking for Data myself on Nobel Shotshell Powders,& saw your post.
    I have a book written by a fellow Aussie,which covers the 3 powders you have/had,with loads for various rifles.
    If you still need the info,please reply,I will send relevent info.
    Downunder Hunter.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Downunder Hunter, I to have been looking for Nobel powder loads, re: Nobel 78 powder and loads for 9mm luger.
    Any chance there may be a mention of this in your book? and maybe for the 455 webley?

    Cheers

  17. #17
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    I have recently acquired several sealed tins of Nobel Powders & 1 of Winchester 540 from a deceased estate. I too am in desperate need of load data for the following.

    No1 Rifle powder
    No.2 Rifle powder
    No.1 Revolver powder
    No.2 Revolver powder
    Winchester 540
    Last edited by redgum; 09-04-2009 at 05:04 PM.

  18. #18
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    If someone will forward me a copy of the pages, I'll scan them and put them on Castpics.
    Cast Bullet info
    http://www.castpics.net/

    Reloading Data Project - (in retirement)
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/reloadersrfrnce/

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Redgum:

    I've got handgun data on Winchester 540; I can post it tomorrow, which is yesterday your time (I think).

  20. #20
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    WINCHESTER 540 DATA
    (Also use HS-6 Data)

    From Winchester Reloader's Manual, 15th Ed., 1997

    .38 Super Auto +P
    115 JHP - 7.8 to 8.5 - 540 - 1185 to 1320 fps
    124 FMJ - 7.3 to 8.3 - 540 - 1110 to 1260
    130 FMJ - 6.8 to 8.0 - 540 - 1065 to 1225
    147 JHP - 6.3 to 7.2 - 540 - 975 to 1115
    160 Lead - 5.1 to 6.0 - 540 - 905 to 1030

    .38 Special
    148 HBWC - 4.6 to 5.1 - 540 - 720 to 800 fps
    148 BBWC - 4.7 to 5.2 - 540 - 700 to 785
    158 SWC - 6.2 to 6.8 - 540 - 805 to 880

    .38 Special +P
    110 JHP - 5.3 to 5.7 - 540 - 1005 to 1070 fps
    125 JHP - 7.8 to 8.2 - 540 - 945 to 1000
    140 JHP - 7.0 to 7.4 - 540 - 785 to 875
    158 JHP - 6.1 to 6.6 - 540 - 750 to 800
    158 SWC - 7.1 - 540 - 915

    9mm Luger (9x19mm)
    95 FMJ - 6.6 to 7.1 - 540 - 1145 to 1245 fps
    114 Lead Conical Nose - 5.6 to 6.2 - 540 - 1050 to 1125
    115 FMJ - 6.1 to 6.7 - 540 - 1040 to 1135
    115 JHP - 6.1 to 6.6 - 540 - 1050 to 1130
    124 Lead Round Nose - 5.0 to 5.7 - 540 - 950 to 1050
    124 FMJ - 5.6 to 6.1 - 540 - 1000 to 1065
    147 Lead Flat Point - 4.5 to 5.0 - 540 - 840 to 925
    147 FMJ - 4.7 to 5.1 - 540 - 855 to 890
    147 JHP - 4.3 to 4.8 - 540 - 800 to 885

    .40 S&W
    150 JHP - 7.7 to 8.6 - 540 - 1055 to 1175 fps
    155 JHP - 7.7 to 8.5 - 540 - 1040 to 1140
    170 JHP - 7.0 to 7.7 - 540 - 970 to 1075
    170 Lead - 6.3 to 7.2 - 540 - 945 to 1060
    180 JHP - 6.2 to 6.9 - 540 - 895 to 985
    200 FMJ - 5.7 to 6.4 - 540 - 835 to 905
    200 Lead - 4.7 to 5.3 - 540 - 775 to 855

    10mm Auto
    150 JHP - 8.7 to 10.6 - 540 - 1105 to 1330 fps
    155 JHP - 9.3 to 10.8 - 540 - 1165 to 1355
    170 Lead - 8.2 to 9.3 - 540 - 1120 to 1245
    170 JHP - 8.7 to 9.9 - 540 - 1105 to 1265
    180 JHP - 8.0 to 9.3 - 540 - 1040 to 1190
    190 FMJ - 8.0 to 9.3 - 540 - 1030 to 1175
    200 Lead - 6.6 to 7.6 - 540 - 960 to 1085
    200 FMJ - 7.5 to 8.6 - 540 - 960 to 1090

    .45 ACP
    154 Lead - 8.5 to 9.6 - 540 - 940 to 1060 fps
    180 LSWC - 8.0 to 9.0 - 540 - 880 to 980
    185 JSWC - 8.0 to 9.0 - 540 - 825 to 950
    185 JHP - 9.1 to 10.0 - 540 - 905 to 1015
    200 LSWC - 7.2 to 8.3 - 540 - 805 to 925
    200 FPJ - 8.1 to 8.9 - 540 - 825 to 925
    200 JHP - 7.8 to 8.5 - 540 - 810 to 895
    230 LRN - 6.9 to 7.6 - 540 - 750 to 860
    230 FMJ - 7.4 to 8.1 - 540 - 745 to 830
    230 JHP - 6.9 to 7.6 - 540 - 715 to 800

    There were no Magnum loads of any caliber listed.

    According to Handloader #262, Oct. 2009, HS-6 is the same as Winchester 540.

    Selected HS-6 loads from Speer #12:

    .38 Super +P, W-W cases, CCI500
    115 GDHP, TMJ, JHP - 8.0 to 8.8 - 1177 to 1307
    124 SP, GDHP, TMJ - 7.5 to 8.3 - 1134 to 1245
    147 GDHP, TMJ - 6.4 to 7.1 - 948 to 1048

    .38 Special, Speer cases, CCI550
    158 LSWC, LHP, LRN - 5.6 to 6.1 - 871 to 944

    .38 Special +P - No loads given for HS-6

    9mm Luger (9x19mm), Speer cases, CCI500
    115 GDHP, TMJ, JHP - 3.7 to 7.5 - 1048 to 1178
    124 SP, GDHP, TMJ - 6.0 to 6.7 - 951 to 1059
    147 GDHP, TMJ - 5.0 to 5.6 - 845 to 956
    125 LRN - 5.1 to 5.5 - 913 to 993

    .357 Magnum, Speer cases, CCI550
    125 JSP, GDHP, JHP, TMJ - 10.0 to 11.3 - 1009 to 1124
    140 JHP - 8.8 to 9.8 - 1005 to 1142

    .40 S&W, Speer cases, CCI500
    155 TMJ, GDHP - 7.3 to 9.0 - 786 to 1033

    10mm Auto, Hornady cases, CCI350
    155 TMJ, GDHP - 9.5 to 10.5 - 1095 to 1223
    180 TMJ, GDHP - 8.3 to 9.2 - 1019 to 1118
    180 TMJ, GDHP - 8.5 to 9.4 - 1010 to 1118 WIN. 540 DATA!
    200 TMJ - 8.2 to 9.1 - 1006 to 1094

    .45 ACP, RP cases, CCI300
    185 GDHP - 8.9 to 9.9 - 832 to 926
    200 TMJ Match, JHP - 8.5 to 9.5 - 823 to 956
    230 TMJ - 7.8 to 8.5 - 773 to 863
    230 GDHP - 7.2 to 8.0 - 702 to 799

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check