Load DataInline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading Everything
WidenersSnyders JerkyLee PrecisionTitan Reloading
Repackbox RotoMetals2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 36

Thread: New article from Glen Fryxell

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master



    cbrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kalifornia Escapee
    Posts
    8,034

    New article from Glen Fryxell

    I've been having computers problems in posting and editing on my web site lasc.us. Glen has a new article on aluminum gas checks that many folks should find interesting and Glen gave his permission to post it here. Once I figure out the computer bug I'm having I'll post this with Glen's other articles on lasc.us.

    Vulcan Check: Aluminum Gas Checks

    by Glen E. Fryxell

    Historically, dating back to 1906, gas checks (GCs) have been made out of copper or brass. The reasons behind this include that copper and brass have suitable properties (hardness, melting point, etc.) to protect a bullet’s base, they are widely available and affordable, and they are soft enough to make mass production of GCs easy (by stamping). Other metals have also been used, for example zinc,with the Harvey bullet designs of the 1950s. More recently, hand tools have been made to allow handloaders to make their own GCs out of aluminum cans. I have used these, and they work just fine, but the handloader has no control over the thickness of cans, and one might get stuck with substandard results if there is too much can-to-can variation, or if the manufacturer chooses to change the thickness for reasons entirely unrelated to the shooting of cast bullets. The bottom-line is the metal that a GC is made out of needs to be harder than lead, softer than barrel steel, easily worked and formed, and reasonably affordable. Many different metals could conceivably serve in this role.

    Aluminum used to be a very expensive metal. Recall that the apex of the Washington monument is made of pure aluminum metal – chosen because in 1884 (when the apex was put in place), aluminum was the most exotic metal they could obtain, and they felt that this was a suitable way to honor George Washington. This expense was due to the extreme difficulty encountered in the 1880s to electro chemically reduce aluminum ore (bauxite) to aluminum metal. Today, aluminum is much cheaper due to abundant electrical power and active recycling programs, and we use aluminum metal for everything from packaging cheap beer, to wrapping our baked potatoes.

    So, does aluminum make good gas checks? Well, I’ve shot a few handmade aluminum GCs that I made using the afore mentioned handtools and empty aluminum cans, and they worked just fine. With that specific set of tools and the bullets I was using, the fit of the GC on the bullet’s shank was a little loose and sloppy, but I made a point of keeping the GC within the neck of the loaded round so that throat tension would hold it in place and everything worked just fine. Accuracy was good, the bore was clean, the GC went out the barrel with the bullet, and everybody was happy. My ability to exert quality control was somewhat restricted because I was limited to whatever thickness aluminum I could get in empty aluminum cans (e.g. .006” on a Diet Pepsi can of recent manufacture), and obviously the manufacturer of those put zero thought into making those cans a specific thickness to satisfy my needs as a cast bullet shooter. Aluminum, as a material to make GCs out of, is a perfectly adequate material for the job, it’s just a question of whether or not aluminum cans are a suitable (i.e. thick enough)feed stock to make quality GCs with. The answer to that question depends on which cans one is using (they do vary somewhat in thickness), and the size of the GC shank on the particular bullet mould(s) in question. Generally speaking,copper-based GCs have been made in the range of .009-.016” thick (depending oncaliber; thinner for smaller calibers, thicker for larger calibers), so a .006” aluminum can would, at first glance, appear to make a GC that would be too thin. However, as any experienced bullet caster can tell you, there are quite a few bullet moulds out there that produce bullets with oversized GC shanks, in which case these thinner aluminum can derived GCs work beautifully. In addition, copper-based GCs are made that thick so that they will be slightly oversized and deliver the desired diameter when run through the sizing die, even if the bullet’s shank isslightly undersized. The thinner aluminum can derived GC may (or may not) have the dimensional flexibility to serve in such a case.

    What if aluminum GCs were made out of thicker stock? That’s a very good question, but one that I didn’t have a ready way to address until just recently. The good folks at Vulcan Checks (www.vulcanchecks.com ; 191 Whitney Road, Penfield, NY, 14526) make a wide variety of GCs for the cast bullet shooter, and they make them out of both copper and aluminum. Their prices are better than I have seen anywhere else recently (i.e.online, retail outlets, or gunshows), and their aluminum GCs are cheaper than their copper GCs. Recently, they put out a request for people to field test some of their new products, and one of the bore sizes they were interested inwas 6.5mm, which is one of my favorites, so I volunteered to test them. A little while later, in the mail I got samples of their 6.5mm aluminum GCs, in two different thicknesses, .013” and .0145” (about 25 of each). These are good looking GCs, and at first glance it was obvious that they covered more of the GC shank than do the traditional copper GC, so I broke out the dial calipers and took a few measurements.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	65x55 with Lyman 266469-1.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	41.2 KB 
ID:	124486 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	65x55 loading project-1.jpg 
Views:	108 
Size:	43.3 KB 
ID:	124482

    6.5x55

    6.5 mm GC Dimensions (ID measurements are only approximate):

    Hornady (crimp-on copper GCs) .010” thick .061” deep .273” OD .250” ID
    Vulcan Check .013” .013” thick .105” deep .273” OD .249” ID
    Vulcan Check .0145” .0145” thick .118” deep .272” OD .249” ID

    (Just for reference, the GC shank on bullets cast from my Lyman 266469 is .250”).

    The dimensions of the Vulcan Check aluminum GCs result in a GC that snaps snugly onto the GC shank. These taller aluminum GCs essentially cover the entire shank of the 266469 (see photo). Sizing them down to .266” required a little more effort than usual since essentially the entire GC shank of the bullet was being swaged down inside the taller aluminum GC, but this resulted in a very tight fit on the GC shank. Once sized, it was not possible to pull these GCs off with my bare fingers (even without a crimp-on lip, like the Hornady GC has).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lyman 266469 and  GCs-1.jpg 
Views:	116 
Size:	32.2 KB 
ID:	124483

    The Lyman 264469 (l-r: as-cast, sized/lubed with Hornady copper GC, sized/lubed with Vulcan .013 aluminum GC, sized/lubed with Vulcan .0145 aluminum GC).

    I wanted to test these loads in a rifle with a known performance record with cast bullets. In this case, the choice was an easy one. Many years ago, my wife made me a Christmas gift of a 1906 vintage Swedish Mauser 96, chambered in 6.5x55(of course), that had been converted to a target rifle at some unknown date(probably in the 1920s) and fitted with good, target grade peep sights. This rifle is not only very special to me, it is also accurate and very fun with cast bullets. The fast twist barrel (1 in 7 ¾”) means that there are limitations, and cast bullets cannot be driven at full throttle (e.g. 140 grain bullets at 2500 fps) with anyhope of accuracy, due to stripping of the soft bullet from the fast twist. Nonetheless, at more moderate velocities, it is a good cast bullet shooter and routinely produces groups of 1 ¼” to 1 ½” at 50 yards (with iron sights). Not surprisingly, being a military rifle, it has an oversized throat, so I size all cast bullets .266” to better fit that throat. I have had a lot of fun over the years with this rifle loaded with the Lyman 266469 over 16.0 grains of 4198(1650 fps).


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Swedish Mauser testing-1.jpg 
Views:	124 
Size:	58.4 KB 
ID:	124484

    Swedish Mauser test rifle (6.5x55).

    With the rifle chosen, I sat down and cast up a batch of Lyman 266469s using analloy of 3 parts recovered range scrap (BHN of about 8) and 1 part linotype,for an overall BHN of about 12. All bullets were sized .266” and lubed with50/50 beeswax and moly grease. All GCs were installed concurrent with lube-sizing. I wanted to see how these Vulcan Check aluminum GCs performed over a range of velocities, so I used 3 different test loads: 9.2 grains of Red Dot (1400 fps), 15.5 grains of 4227 (1600 fps), and 26.5 grains of 4895 (1900 fps). CCI 200 primers were used throughout. 5-shot test groups were shot at 50 yards, from a sandbag rest. The gun was not cleaned during testing.

    5-shot groups for both of the Vulcan Check aluminum GCs averaged right around 1 ½” and compared favorably with those groups using the Hornady GCs. Average velocities were also very similar to one another. In all cases, strings for each powdercharge varied less than 20 fps from one another, and in most cases were only afew fps apart. In each case the Vulcan Check loaded ammo came out ever so slightly faster, but this is from a very limited number of shots (i.e. of highly dubious statistical significance), and could easily come out in reverse order with the next test.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Swedish Mauser and targets-1.jpg 
Views:	185 
Size:	42.8 KB 
ID:	124485

    Representative test targets.

    In this particular case, with this particular rifle and bullet mould, I see no advantage to using the thicker (i.e. .0145”) aluminum GCs as the extra thickness was not needed to fit either the bullet’s GC shank, or to fit the rifle’s throat. It is, however, nice to have that option for those recalcitrant cases (either mould or rifle) where that thickness IS needed (and there were some wide dimensional variations in some of these World War I vintage military rifles).

    Based on this very limited test, it seems that these aluminum GCs work as well as traditional copper GCs, both in terms of sealing the gases behind the bullet’s base to avoid leading and get the most velocity out of the powder charge, and in terms of cleanly delivering the bullet from the barrel into stable free flight for good accuracy. They are easy to install, well made, and affordable. They are sufficiently thick to insure that they provide a full diameter bullet base after installation and sizing, and once they are swaged onto the bullet’s shank they stead fastly stay in place. All in all, the Vulcan Checks aluminum GCs do a good job of getting a cast bullet down the barrel and accurately on its way. What happens beyond that point depends on the shooter, their ability to estimate range, and read the wind.
    Last edited by cbrick; 12-15-2014 at 01:41 AM.
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    CRPA Life Member

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nebraska's oldest city
    Posts
    12,418
    Thanks Rick
    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
    .30/30 Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    North East Utah
    Posts
    315
    Glen needs to try making checks using some of Yonky's aluminum strip. Using good material is a whole different world than using pop cans.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master



    cbrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kalifornia Escapee
    Posts
    8,034
    Quote Originally Posted by .30/30 Guy View Post
    Glen needs to try making checks using some of Yonky's aluminum strip. Using good material is a whole different world than using pop cans.
    I think you have completely missed the point of the article.

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    CRPA Life Member

  5. #5
    Banned

    44man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    22,705
    Very good post Rick. The thickness was my concern from the start so to get good material would solve any problems.
    I remember the Harvey Pro Tex things and they did provide a seal, they did not stop boolit skid. But they did seal against gas leakage.

  6. #6
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,878
    Quote Originally Posted by .30/30 Guy View Post
    Glen needs to try making checks using some of Yonky's aluminum strip. Using good material is a whole different world than using pop cans.
    The test was with Vulcan's 6.5 aluminum GC made with .013 and .0145 alum.
    I did a similar test for Vulcan, but Glen's writeup put's mine to shame.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post2804500
    My test was with 6mm GC made from .010 and .0145 alum.
    from my experience making some alum GC's from various sources of alum, and the "looks" of the finished GCs, I'd guess Vulcan is using a flashing type of alum, like Amerimax.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NW GA
    Posts
    7,243
    Love his articles. Well thought out, informative, an overall pleasure.

    Thanks for posting Rick.

  8. #8
    Moderator Emeritus


    MrWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    NE West Virginia
    Posts
    4,901
    Great read. Thanks for posting.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

    dragon813gt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Somewhere in SE PA
    Posts
    9,989
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrick View Post
    I think you have completely missed the point of the article.

    Rick
    I don't think he missed it. Glen is saying that aluminium is a proper substitute for copper when it comes to making checks. As long as the thickness is correct for the application. Glen talks about different size shanks and how copper is usually on the larger side to compensate for these variations. I believe what 30/30 Guy is saying that if you buy quality material, from a source like Yonky, you can tailor the checks to your specific application. I never considered soda cans, it's not called Pop here as an option.

    The good thing is that he tested aluminium checks and they worked well. His results mirror what a lot of members here have had. If you buy/make the tooling and then buy varying thicknesses of aluminium you can tailor the checks to any application.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


    nagantguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    2,704
    Great write up, good info.to have, I know I've been happy with 2 separate batches I've bought from fellow members here made of aluminum.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Glen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The great Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    995
    Thanks for posting that Rick!
    Glen

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy Mugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    prescott valley az.
    Posts
    292
    The groups in my avatar were shot with aluminum gas checks in a 30BR. Bev shot a 40X40 half size with her 7BR with aluminum checks at the Lasc Extravaganza and was able to do well on the shoot off targets. Rick can verify how tuff LASC's shoot off targets are.

    Mugs
    Shoot only Cast Bullets!

  13. #13
    Banned

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    5,200
    Rick, thanks for that. I did not know that was your site. It is a awesome resource. What about try to see at what speeds the copper seems to edge out the aluminum test?

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Mugs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    prescott valley az.
    Posts
    292
    Tommy Boy
    Those groups in my avatar were shot at 1900 fps. and see no difference between copper and aluminum.
    Mugs
    Shoot only Cast Bullets!

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master



    cbrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kalifornia Escapee
    Posts
    8,034
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugs View Post
    The groups in my avatar were shot with aluminum gas checks in a 30BR. Bev shot a 40X40 half size with her 7BR with aluminum checks at the Lasc Extravaganza and was able to do well on the shoot off targets. Rick can verify how tuff LASC's shoot off targets are. Mugs
    Yeah Rick is the one that started using the half size targets at 200 for shoot-offs.

    Rick can also verify what fine shooter Bev is.

    Glen mentioned that he wants to run a copper vs. aluminum test next spring, that will be another interesting article. I think I agree with Mugs that with proper fitting checks there shouldn't be much if any difference. What has kept me from trying the make your own checks is the thinness of aluminum cans. Seems we now have options to cover that. Options are good!

    Rick
    "The people never give up their freedom . . . Except under some delusion." Edmund Burke

    "Let us remember that if we suffer tamely a lawless attack on our liberty, we encourage it." Samuel Adams

    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    CRPA Life Member

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    JWFilips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Northeastern part of Penn's Woods near Slocum Hollow.
    Posts
    1,920
    Vulcan makes a respectable product both in Copper & Aluminum from all of my testing. The thing I like about them is they do offer different thicknesses So you have a good bit to work with ( you just have to ask)
    " Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington

  17. #17
    Banned








    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    munising Michigan
    Posts
    17,725
    if glen says it take it to the bank. In my opinion hes the most knowledgeable cast bullet athourity in the country.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Redlands, NorKifornia
    Posts
    11,551
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    If glen says it take it to the bank. In my opinion hes the most knowledgeable cast bullet authority in the country.
    Yes, sir. Full agreement with that.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Wright County, Missouri
    Posts
    328
    Thanks for posting the article. Aluminum gas checks are something I've been wanting to try, but the projects pile up, and making my own just isn't of that much interest. Glad to see there's one more option for factory made aluminum checks out there. Think I'll order sample packs in a couple of calibers when I get back from the next Missouri trip.
    Urny
    Elko County, the old heart of Nevada

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master
    btroj's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nebraska's oldest city
    Posts
    12,418
    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    if glen says it take it to the bank. In my opinion hes the most knowledgeable cast bullet athourity in the country.
    If he isn't then the guy who knows more isn't sharing
    You will learn far more at the casting, loading, and shooting bench than you ever will at a computer bench.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check