45 Colt loads for SAA with Vihtavuori powder

[Carsten]

Hi folks.

I am looking for loads for Lee .452-255-RF bullets with Vihtavuori powder.
It is for my Colt SAA 3rd gen. from 1978.

I am an experienced handloader and I normally develop my own loads for both rifle and handguns, using Quickload, publiced data and common sense.

However, I am confused about the different power levels for the 45 Colt and I hear a lot of talk about how week the Colt cylinders are.
Available loading data is all over the place from very mild to the opposite.

The loads from Vihtavuori’s website seems rather hot for a SAA and I read about a guy blowing up a SAA clone with their publiced data.

Running Vihtavuori’s data in Quickload also shows excessive pressure but I have experienced before that QL calculations are off in certain pistol calibers.

I can easily find a mild target load but I would also like to make some, for a SAA, hot loads that duplicates the original black powder load.

Can anyone advice me some data using Vihtavuori powder?
I have N330, N340, N105, N110 and Tin Star.
Which one is the best suited for the 255gr. bullet?

[35 Whelen]

You should subscribe to loaddata.com . I did and it's some of the best money I've ever spent! Tons of Vihtavouri data there.

Sample:

250	LRN	Vihtavuori	VV-N330	6.3	781
Remarks: starting load; Cowboy Action Shooting load
250	LRN	Vihtavuori	VV-N330	7.5	961
Remarks: maximum load; Cowboy Action Shooting load

[USSR]

Carsten,

Use either Tin Star or N330, depending upon how fast you want to push those 255gr bullets. For a mild load I would try 5.5gr of the Tin Star, and for a heavier load I would try 9.0gr of N330 and work up from there. Hope that helps.

Don

[DougGuy]

Welcome to the forum Carsten! When you extrapolate loads, just keep in mind that your revolver has a 14,000psi pressure ceiling and you will be fine. I would not even use +P loads in that fine Colt. Rugers will take all the +P you want to put through them but not the Colts.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Carsten, I shoot 3rd gen Colt's a lot and have for years. I have a pound of VV-3N37 which I purchased because Brian Pearce of Handloader magazine said was a good powder. According to Pearce 10.5 gr of VV-3N37 is safe for driving a RCBS 270 gr Keith boolit at 950 to 1,000 fps from a post war Colt SAA. Also 11.0 gr of VV 3N37 with the 454424 for over 1,000 fps.

My pound of VV-3N37 has been sitting for years while I have been shooting the 454190 with 8.0 gr of Unique.

I tested 10.5 gr of VV 3N37 with the 454190 .454" and got 5 shots which chronographed at 860, 911, 889, 889, 905. CCI300's, Starline brass, Lyman Alox. Wheelweigh alloy. 4 3/4" Colt SAA.

Handloader magazine recently published factory equivalent loads and VV-3N37 was listed at 8.5 gr with a 250 gr boolit. I think it was Mike Ventrino.

I've been hard on my Colt SAA's, I own many so if one goes down I could just pick up another one. I've found the rumors of their weakness untrue. I've run these guns without changing any springs and they last longer than my Beretta 92 did, and I change the coil springs in my 1911 more often, mostly because I don't rely on the SAA for defense. But I've pushed the SAA hard with high round counts with full factory loads, not even cleaning them for months to see what their limit is.

One thing I don't do tho is push the chamber pressures into the upper limits of what the gun writers say is safe. I could load a few high pressure loads for bear when I'm outdoor but we only have black bears here and I find no need for more than a 250 gr boolit at 850 fps out of a Colt SAA.

The 250 gr boolit over 8 gr of Unique does have authority to do the business, it seems hot when shot but is a low pressure load given the large chamber of the .45 Colt.

I've got .44 Special loads that push a 240 gr boolit at over 1,000 fps and they are quite snappy. I'm told they are safe and I don't really need any more than that. If I need more power I use my Ruger SBH .44 Mag.

I've noticed the 454424 and the 454190 seat at much different depths so be aware that a max load for one boolit does not translate to the same max load for the other.

Let me know what you find, I look forward to hearing from you.

[ole 5 hole group]

Might give 9.2 grains of N-340 a try - should be in the low 900fps range.

[Carsten]

I read the article by Brian Pierce but I am out of 3N37.

We cannot legally store more than 4.5 lbs of powder at a time here.
That itself is impossible but I do try to limit my stock

My target is an honest 900 fps from my 5.5" barrel.
Can I safely work up to that over the chrono using N330, N340 or Tin Star?

I always use safety goggles when testing loads and I am usually not particular worried when developing loads but blowing up this fine Colt would make me very sad.

[ole 5 hole group]

I don't see a problem - N330 is a little fast to my way of thinking - I've used N350 but the accuracy for me wasn't good until I got to the upper limits - N340 worked the best for me for "heavy" target loads. 9.2 grains was my sweet spot. I haven't fired that load over a chronograph but I think it should be around 900fps but the pressure is low in my SW-25, as the cases are pretty well smoked (black).

[Carsten]

I did a test yesterday.
The Lee bullet has to be seated rather deep to a OAL of 1.555" and is cast to 265gr. so I started low.
I testet up to 8.2 gr. this time and this gave 765fps.
Recoil feels like my Magtech cowboy action rounds at 730fps.
I will aim for 9gr. next time.

[BCB]

Carsten...

If you have QuickLoad, you can set the psi to a level that will be safe for your handgun...

Then use the powder selection screen and insert different charges of powder for different VV powders...

Or, you can use the Ba screen and have it do the calculations and suggested powders...

It can take a bit of time, but it is always interesting the results you get...

I have used some of the data from my Ruger Blackhawk--but my goal is very light loads for it just to shoot with no damage to my hands--recoil I mean...

QuickLoad can be a very good friend once you get it figured out...

Good-luck...BCB

[Larry Gibson]

Carsten

I did extensive testing of VV Tin Star for a cartridge company and numerous CBA SASS shooters. I conducted velocity and accuracy tests in Uberti Revolvers and M1873 rifles. I also conducted extensive actual pressure testing and load work up. Using Tin Star (VV N32C) in Starline cases with Federal 150 primers under a 454190 Lyman 250 gr cast bullet I found 8.9 gr to be an excellent load. It produces excellent accuracy with pressures at 18,200 psi(M43) and velocities equal to the old standby "classic" load of the same bullet over 8.5 gr Unique. I use that load in both my Uberti's and my M1873 Carbine. It should prove excellent in your 3rd Gen Colt SAA.

Larry Gibson

[Carsten]

Larry
What was the OAL of those rounds?
Is 18,200 psi safe in a Colt SAA?

I do use Quickload end have done it for years.
I currently have v3.3.
I find it excellent for developing rifle loads but in some handgun calibers it is sometimes way off.
I have also used earlier versions and they were even worse.
For handguns I use it for "what if" predictions more than for pressure indications.
Maybe I should upgrade to v.3.8 and see if that is better.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

454190 is properly seated with a COL at 1.60"

[Larry Gibson]

The 454190 bullets were cast (#2 alloy) from a Lyman mould (geargnasher's) and seated to the crimp groove in new Starline cases. OAL in the new cases as tested was 1.589".

Larry Gibson

[Carsten]

I worked up to 9gr. N340 today.
895FPS from my 5.5" barrel.

Tried some Tin Star up to 8.4gr.
This gave 855FPS.

This was with an COL of 1.555" and a 265gr. cast weight.

Next time I will go a little higher on the Tin Star load.

[Patrick56]

Hej Carsten, go to the Vihtavuori website and download the Reloading Guide 10. The .45 LC is listed twice, normal handgun loads and CAS loads.

[Carsten]

Hi Patrick.

VV is known to publish rather hot data.
Not so many lawyers in Finland I guess
I wouldn't dare to put 9.6gr. Tin Star in a SAA.
The Tin Star max load is over 20000PSI in Quickload.
I do believe that a 3rd gen. SAA will withstand 45 ACP max pressure as it is offered in that caliber but no one will really tell me.

[Patrick56]

Hi Carsten, 9,6gr Tin Star is listed as a maximum load that should be approached with care. If your cases show signs of excessive pressure before reaching max loads, you are supposed to stop there. I would never take for granted that any of my guns would withstand max loads as there is always differences in chamber and barrell dimensions that could increase pressure. Bullet hardness and diameter etc. could do the same. In rifles we used Kemira no28 primers as a poor mans pressure sensor. They are thinner and when flattened warns of high pressure.

[Patrick56]

About the 45ACP. It is in no way a magnum cartridge as the case is thin and has no support at the feeding ramp. A quality SA revolver will stand the pressures generated in an .45ACP well.

[Carsten]

The SAAMI max pressure for 45 Colt is only 14000 PSI while the ACP is rated to 21000 PSI.
The Colt SAA cylinder cannot not be compared to the one of a modern quality revolver.
I am also told that with the Colt you cannot rely on normal pressure signs, as you will not see any signs before you are way over the the red line for this gun.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am an experienced handloader but I am new to the Colt SAA so any advise will be appreciated.