New to me Remington Rolling Block

[pjames32]

Guess I just bought a Navy Arms Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block 45-70 on Gunbroker. Hope I can get it shipped to me before we go on our winter trip.
This is my first single shot 45-70 so I'm excited to try it out.
It has a 30" bbl. I'm not sure of the twist. I have NOE flat point 350gr. bullets so I'll be working a load based on those. Any suggestions are appreciated.
PJ

[Kraschenbirn]

As Pedersoli uses a 1-18 twist for all their current 45-70s, I'm going to assume the gun you've got coming has a 1-18 twist which might be a little fast for that 350 gr. NOE boolit. My Pedersoli M71 '#1 Heavy Sporter' (30" half-octagon bbl. w/1-18 twist) doesn't seem to like anything lighter than the Lee 405 gr. HB but will easily hold under 2 MOA (iron sights) out to 300M with the heavier boolits. My best smokeless loads are either 28.5 gr. AA2015 under a 440 gr RNFP or 24.0 gr AA5744 under the Lee 525 gr. Postell. For BP, I use the Lee 405 gr HB over 66 gr. Goex AA with a .030 fiber wad and home-brewed Emmert's Lube.

Bill

[pjames32]

Thanks Bill! Good info
PJ

[StrawHat]

If this is a Navy Arms import, it has the brass trim? Those are very early and I have had a couple of them. I do not recall the twist, but I do recall that they shot well with black powder. In those days, I was still learning and had not tried using compression, just a slow pour through the funnel to get as much powder in the case as I could and still seat a bullet. I was using the 405 HB from Lee and the Lyman 457122 (330 HP). Both shot well enough for hunting and plinking.

I will see if I can find out the twist from any notes I might have from those rifles.

[Bigslug]

Just got the new 4C NOE 535 grain Postell copy - GREAT shooting boolit in the 1100-1150 fps ballpark out of my pop's heavy Roller using Triple 7 and Ben's Red for lube. Great groups and some of the lowest S.D. numbers over the chrono we've ever seen.

[pjames32]

Strawhat & Bigslug-thx for the replies. I will not get this before our winter trip so I'm in no hurry. Data/knowledge is appreciated. A heavier mold may b in my future.
PJ

[rfd]

i have a pedersoli john bodine rolling block (.45-70), love it. i handload, and only with lead boolits that i cast and lube with my own brew. favorite short distance (200yds) smokeless load is aa5744 under a 415gr lyman 457193 (1:30 alloy) with a .030" card stock wad. for most long range s/s smokeless shooters, it's either aa5744 or sr4759 powder and 405 to 550 grain cast boolits. i prefer aa5744, it's got some added bulk to better fill the case (i never use fillers), but it burns a bit "dirty" that has no effect on consistency/accuracy, and bore cleaning 'tween shots is not necessary. but, imo, black powder and the .45-70 are a perfect match. enjoy.

[Rick459]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Malcolm-Scope
here is my bought in 1975 navy arms RB. shoot's well with the 330 hp and the 405 hb bullets. have fun with yours.
Rick

[Toymaker]

Both my Pedersoli Rolling Blocks (30"barrel, 1:18 twist) didn't shoot well until I went to (at least) a 405 grain bullet. With that 65 grains of Goex FFg worked very well. I prefer to wipe between shots rather than use a blow tube. Cleanup was easy, almost easier than with smokeless. IMR SR 4759 gave me 1,187 fps average velocity and very tight groups. The load was developed during the Summer and I found that groups opened up considerably in Winter. Accurate XMP at 23 grains gave 1,083 fps average velocity with the same group size, AND it didn't change when the weather did. The Hoch 500 grain Semi-Spritzer is also giving excellent results with these same loads. I could probably "load it up" some more, but I have accurate loads that aren't punishing. I can shoot a 40 round competition without Ben Gay, bruises or aches and pains the morning after.

[rfd]

my 200m "chicken" .45-70 smokeless load is 26grns aa5744, .030" card stock wad, .005" newsprint wad, 415grn lyman #457193. for longer distances it's a 532grn lyman #457132 postell and 24.5grns of aa5744. i cast the boolits and use gato lube.

[pjames32]

Good info. I'm trying to absorb. AA 5744keeps popping up.
PJ

[StrawHat]

There is a big difference in the Rolling Block rifles that were made for Navy Arms and the ones currently being imported. There was quite a bit of chatter on them over at the Single Shot forum and other fora. The older ones, originally with the brass trigger guard, were made to slightly looser standards and are a bit springy. Newer ones have a different geometry and are built better. I still have and use an older one, 26 inch tapered octagon to round barrel. I use black powder and the Gould or the 405 HB boolit. Both are effective and do not stress the action. Not a perfect copy but fun to shoot.

[pjames32]

My picture shows a brass trigger guard so its probably an older one. I'll stick with trap door loads!
Thx
PJ

[pjames32]

Update and more questions-the gun arrived after we left for our winter trip. It now resides in a friends gun safe and he has thanked me for "his" very nice Christmas present. It has a brass trigger guard so I'm assuming it is an older production Pedersoli and I should stick with trap door loads.
I bought this so I could shoot some longer distance (250+yds) targets-probably for fun and not competing. My days of retrieving an elk are probably in my past altho if I find some young help I might try apply again.
I have an NOE 350gr mold for my Marlin lever. I will need to purchase another bigger mold and would like suggestions. Considering this will be loaded to mostly trap door loads, do I need a gas check design.
For mostly target work I've seen alloy suggestions from 16-1 to 30-1. I will slug the barrel when I get home and size accordingly and can mix the alloy I need. Suggestions?
AA 5744 keeps popping up in loads. I'm using IMR 4227 for my 350gr loads. If I can find 5744, is this the powder of choice? I may later try black powder, but first want to develop a reliable accurate smokeless load.
Books/reading material? I've read most of the history posts in this category and there are some really good ones-THX Larry! Any other suggestions for reading material while I'm traveling and suffering withdrawal from my reloading equipment?
Again, thanks for everyone sharing their knowledge.
From sunny Arizona
PJ

[rfd]

absolutely no gas checks required or wanted. if you compete, gc's are not allowed at most matches. you will want a card, veggie or milk carton wad 'tween powder and boolit, .030" is good for starters.

you will want a plain base boolit, with no base bevel edge, crisp and sharp. imho, it's very hard to beat the lyman 457193 fp 405 boolit for yer initial intentions and is deadly accurate for me out to 200 yards and probably lots further. you can mess with slugging the barrel, but i'll bet it'll work just fine if ya shoot it as it drops from the mould, probably .459" with 1:20 alloy, don't bother resizing.

distances beyond 200-300 yard will best be served by heavier boolits in the 500-550 grain weights. lots to choose, everyone has their fave. same boolit criteria as above will apply.

the boolits will intentionally be travelling Slow, somewhere between 1100 and 1350 fps, use a black powder lube, spg is good and used lots, but making yer own is too easy as well (50/50 volume of beeswax/olive oil is but one good lube). there are lotsa ways to get the lube into the boolit grooves, you can even smear it in with yer fingers. since you won't need to resize the lead, pan or dip lubing works well. i prefer dip lubing and remove the excess lube with a fire formed brass case. too easy.

aa5744 and sr4759 are by far the smokeless choices for s/s target with the .45-70 and other vintage calibers. you will see that at the matches and read that in the match results equipment run-downs. i prefer aa5744, it's a bit more case filling. avoid trail boss for long range shooting. there is no fouling control with smokeless, nor even after shooting cleaning as some folks prefer.

as to the alloy, the usual reply is to see what yer rifle likes best but it's hard to go wrong by starting off with 1:20 and see how she goes. look for leading issues.

as to the primer, keep it easy for now with any standard large rifle primer.

the spg garbe-venturino bp book is good, but i think that croft barker's bp silhouette book is better yet.

most of all, enjoy both the shooting and the learning!

[StrawHat]

This is the Croft Barker article on the 50-70. A lot can be learned from this and it applies to the smaller 45-70.

http://singleshotexchange.com/handlo...-70-for-a.html

[pjames32]

Thx for the replies and to rfd for the offer of a few boolits to try. This forum continues to amaze this old man!
PJ

[pls1911]

My perspective is a bit different.
I have a Pedersoli Bodine as well as a standards 32" model Pedersoli roller.
Both shoot the 350 Ranch dog design and the RCBS 300 grain fine... both gas checked bullets.
Around 25 grains 2400 with a tuft of Dacron.
I can't claim cloverleaf target groups, but I also don't shoot at paper.

If you have issues I recommend NOE/RanchDog profile 460 or the RCBS 400... again gas check designs.
Gas checks make great performance much easier without worry of leading.

[rfd]

My perspective is a bit different.
I have a Pedersoli Bodine as well as a standards 32" model Pedersoli roller.
Both shoot the 350 Ranch dog design and the RCBS 300 grain fine... both gas checked bullets.
Around 25 grains 2400 with a tuft of Dacron.
I can't claim cloverleaf target groups, but I also don't shoot at paper.

If you have issues I recommend NOE/RanchDog profile 460 or the RCBS 400... again gas check designs.
Gas checks make great performance much easier without worry of leading.

love the pedersoli bodine, one really fine rifle, i've got the 34" model, just replaced the pedi tang and globe with the good stuff from lee shaver, a soule rear and spirit level globe, this makes a positive good difference for both silhouettes and paper.

as stated, most matches won't allow gas checks as they wanna replicate how these rifles were used back in the late 19th century, with the only allowance is the use of smokeless. but if matches don't matter, none of that matters either. i prefer to keep it all simple and easy, so no gc's for me. with a good boolit and wad, you lose nothing by losing the gc. and without a gc, that boolit base better be sharp and not bevelled.