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Thread: First Attempt at DT PC (and my first post!) - Are these good enough?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    First Attempt at DT PC (and my first post!) - Are these good enough?

    I've lurked here from time to time. I only got into reloading almost 1.5 years ago, and I've done very little casting. I'm mainly a pistol shooter, and recently I decided I'm going to try to make it to IDPA twice a month. The local match I shoot at is indoors, so I'm not keen on using traditional lube. So far I've only been shooting jacketed and plated bullets in a match. Therefore, most of these will be shot inside of 10 yards, with pretty much none of them shot even 20 yards, and they will be shot relatively quickly. In other words, I don't need a 3" group at 50 yards.

    Anyway, I've been reading about PC for the last couple of weeks and decided to try it out myself since it seems like the best of all worlds. I've read quite a bit about PC and it seems to solve many problems without any real downsides. I got some HF red and a cheap toaster oven. I had seen YouTube videos where people put the boolits in some sort of plastic container along with the powder and put the container in their vibratory tumbler. I've also read many accounts of simply shaking the container by hand (or swirling in a Cool Whip container). I just tonight read about adding black AirSoft BBs to the mix. I don't have any AirSoft BBs but I went ahead and tried out the vibratory tumbler method.

    Here are the results of my first attempts. I chose 10 at random and lined them up, putting any imperfections on the part that contacts the barrel toward the camera. That big white streak down each one is the flash (you probably figured that out). As you can see, I have very tiny areas that aren't covered on some of these. Also, you'll notice the noses are frankly scratched up pretty badly from using a needle-nose pliers to grab each one. I plan to get a set of tweezers that vary in size and shape to use instead of the pliers. My question is this: "Will imperfections like these (where they meet the barrel) cause any issues?" Might I get leading from those tiny imperfections?



    You may notice that there's some excess coating at the base of some of these as well. I'm not sure what that means. Is it clumped on too thick on some? Will the sizing/loading process shave that off or squash that down to where it doesn't matter? I'm inclined to specifically pick out 20 that perfectly coated with no extra and 20 with a bunch hanging off the bottom and compare how they shoot side-by-side. My gut tells me that I won't see much difference at all at 10 yards, but who knows.

    You can probably tell that besides being new to this site, I'm new to casting and definitely new to PC as well. I hope this question about tiny imperfections such as these hasn't been asked too many times. I don't care how they look, I only care how they shoot and whether or not I'll be cleaning lead out of the bore (which I found I really hate doing). I'm willing to experiment but I'd like to keep with the DT method vs the ES method for now.

    One more thing: Do I really need to stand them all up on end? I have been doing that, and boy is that a pain. I've read accounts of pouring them out on some sort of screen (to collect the excess powder that falls through) and then giving the sheet a shake about 7 minutes into the cooking so that they don't stick together. I would think they would come out looking much worse than these, but who knows. If they still don't lead the bore then I'm all for saving the 10 minutes that it takes to prop up 100 boolits.

    Sorry for the long-winded first-post. They won't all be this long, I promise!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master el34's Avatar
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    Those look really good to me, both the casting and the PC. The scratches on the noses won't cause any trouble. I was able to use my bare powdered fingers to pick them up and even twirl them a little to fix bad spots. But I'm 100% back to ESPC, got frustrated with DT.

    Are you going to size them? I wouldn't worry about the little rings at the base.

    And one more thing- welcome to here!!
    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H. L. Menchen

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    They will be fine... I wish my first attempt looked half that good. I have chosen to go with the ES method after trying DT. I have found I can generate much higher volumes in less time with ES..

    I am sure your performance will be acceptable.. Good luck

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by el34 View Post
    Those look really good to me, both the casting and the PC. The scratches on the noses won't cause any trouble. I was able to use my bare powdered fingers to pick them up and even twirl them a little to fix bad spots. But I'm 100% back to ESPC, got frustrated with DT.

    Are you going to size them? I wouldn't worry about the little rings at the base.

    And one more thing- welcome to here!!
    I am going to size them, yes. My mold is dropping them closer to 360 even though it's advertised as 356. It's a Lee 6-cavity 124gr, and you can see it's the RN tumble variety. I have a Lee sizer die coming this week. The backstory is that I thought I would be tumble lubing but I'm willing to take the extra time to PC if it means there's significantly less smoke. I don't like how the lube is sticky either - gunks up in the seating die too quickly IMO. I'm one of those weird people that actually likes to get away for an hour or three to cast or to reload, and now to PC as well.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I have that same mold and also PC them. They are shot in a S&W M&P unsized. I found I needed all the size I could get to keep them from being sized by the brass. Try the plunk test first with unsized boolits. That's were you drop a round in the barrel to see if they fit.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by upnorthwis View Post
    I have that same mold and also PC them. They are shot in a S&W M&P unsized. I found I needed all the size I could get to keep them from being sized by the brass. Try the plunk test first with unsized boolits. That's were you drop a round in the barrel to see if they fit.
    I tried loading some lubed bullets unsized and I found that although they would chamber just fine, the seating was a bit rough on some rounds and the cases were actually getting marked up in the die. It's merely cosmetic, I'm sure, but it just doesn't seem right, so I'm going to try sizing them with the PC, especially since everything I've read suggests the PC adds yet another 2-3 thousandths to my already very wide-for-caliber bullets.

    I don't know what you mean by needing more size "to keep them from being sized by the brass." Can you expand on that?

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy 1911KY's Avatar
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    Those look great to me! The excess powder on the bottom shouldn't cause any issues, it is caused by an extra thick coating. When i have rounds that are caked with powder I just drop them on top of the BB's from a few inches away or you can tap the side of the bucket to remove the excess powder.

    I will say that in my experience anything over .006" bigger than your sizing die will take some force to get thru. I sized some double coated rounds that I thought were going to damage my press. If your bullets are dropping at .360" and you add another .003" of powder you will be .007" larger than your sizing die. Just be prepared to apply some force to that handle.

    Have you slugged the barrel of your gun to ensure that you need to be shooting .356"? If you get the sizing correct for your barrel then the accuracy will be there.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
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  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy 1911KY's Avatar
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    Also, these tubs are great for swirling BB's as they have deep slanted walls and seem to generate a good static charge. Just make sure you keep your hand against the top firmly when turning them over.

    https://www.glad.com/food-storage/containers/big-bowl/

    Smoke4320 sells BB's and the best powder you will find.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams


    COTEP CBOB0736

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    +1 on Smoke's powders. Those do look good for tumbling. You probably won't get glass smooth without spraying but they should shoot great. Any exposed little specks of lead that you see are actually lower than the surface of the powdercoating. The lead won't be rubbing on the barrel because it is in a very shallow depression. I think they will slide through the sizer much easier when coated than bare lead. I just sized some 16bhn down from .2845 to .278 and they were quite a tight fit but they went, so I think yours should size down pretty well.

    Good job on the tumbling! The flashing should size off and you are going to be good to go, and I think also pretty happy with PC. You seem to have it down!
    Happy Shooting!
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Yodogsandman's Avatar
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    Welcome to the site!

    All your questions seem to be answered. Good job on your first PC'd boolits!

    Your photography rivals many I've seen here on the site, also!

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    They look good, you will need to size them and CHECk the size after sizing. Some alloys will spring back after sizing and end up bigger than you want. A second sizing seems to solve the problem. Size as soon as you can after cooking, they will age harden and make sizing more difficult. Not nearly as smoky as LLA lubed boolits but you may get some.
    Whatever!

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. The wealth of information on this forum is astounding. When I first got into reloading with mainstream projectiles, I thought that was intimidating. When I stumbled upon this forum I got lost for many hours learning things I never knew I might learn, and I know I've barely scratched the surface. The attitude on this forum is a bit...friendlier than a few other forums I frequent, too. This place is great!

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy 1911KY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schrag4 View Post
    The attitude on this forum is a bit...friendlier than a few other forums I frequent, too. This place is great!
    I couldn't agree more with this statement, the main reason I became a contributor, bunch of great folks on here!
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams


    COTEP CBOB0736

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Welcome to the forum. I'm guessing you might have seen my vids on youtube. There is a reason I used hemostats rather than pliers, they don't mar the bullet. For a first attempt those look great. You will have no issues getting better in future runs. That flange on the bullet base is no big deal at all, it will probably snap off when sized.

    Ebner

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Expanding on: "To keep them from being sized by the brass" If the boolit starts out as .356, the brass could crush it down to .354 during seating. This is also dependent on what size the expander is. I had to make a larger expander as well as using them at .358 to keep them from being "sized by the brass"
    You can see how this works by measuring a boolit, then seat it. Then remove it with an impact hammer and measure again. My original Dillon expander/powder funnel measured .353 diameter. The brass probably ended up being expanded to only .351. This was crushing the daylights out of the .356 boolits, leading to severe leading.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master el34's Avatar
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    I'll be very interested to hear how they shoot.

    So how much lead you got so far? You may be surprised by another new passion!
    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --H. L. Menchen

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    My first attempt at DTPC was pretty much a disaster. I learned the hard way that HF matte black doesn't work well for DT. Something good did come of it though, I found this forum.

    Thanks, Dinny
    I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

    Thomas Paine

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy 1911KY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by el34 View Post
    I'll be very interested to hear how they shoot.

    So how much lead you got so far? You may be surprised by another new passion!

    Haha!! You ain't kiddin....I just scored 220 lbs of WW's last Friday! Now I am back on the search! Contemplating driving an hour south to meet with a fellow member to pick up some more!! Lead scavenging, it's a disease that has no cure.
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams


    COTEP CBOB0736

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I picked up 96 lbs of WW which made about 60 lbs of ingots. Once I get a process down that works I'll start to stock up monthly until I think I have roughly a lifetime's supply

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schrag4 View Post
    Once I get a process down that works I'll start to stock up monthly until I think I have roughly a lifetime's supply
    This will be a point roughly one month before the end of your expected life.
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check