45-70 cast with Ideal loading tool

[Don McDowell]

Hello All
I was talking to a freind about Compatition when it hit me I would like to get back in some shooting compation but this time with my 45-70gov't Shikari in Black Powder so I am investing in a varnie sight for it which ledes me me to the question I am going to use my Lee 340gr. FP mold to make the bullets for te compation what would be a great load of Black Powder for the 340gr. bullet at the long range distance the we will be use for that type of compation please information would greatly be excepted

Couple of things to chew on here. The Shikari isn't going to be legal for use in NRA sillouettes. It might be ok in the bptr matches, but it's going to suffer severely when you get past the 300 yd mark with the verticle stringing , that comes from the lock up on that hinged breech..
Your Lee bullet won't hold up much past 200 yds, it's to short with a very low bc to stay stable when getting out into the low velocity at the 300 yd mark and beyond.

[rfd]

fieldmaster - what don said +2.

none of the h&r tip ups are competitive, no matter how you tweak 'em.

but since you have the rifle, powder and boolits, just have at it and see for yerself.

i just wouldn't spend any more dollars on that outfit, though.

[Fieldmaster]

Hello
Just found the Silhoutte rule book it's an older on and it is metioned in there and thay even give them a few exception to the rules oh I also relized I have for a Lee 405gr. Bullet so what is your take on that

[rfd]

1. find out yer local silhouette event rules.

2. without buying more stuff, experiment with what ya got, first - that'll tell you more than anything.

which lee 405, the flat nose or the hollow base nose pour?

[Fieldmaster]

The flat nose

[rfd]

The flat nose

good - have at it!

[Chill Wills]

With the holidays over and the outlaws gone I made time to shoot the loaded rounds I cast and assembled with the Ideal "45 GOV" tool.
We have not had great weather lately and got snowed out of the BPCR Silhouette match last Saturday. I through a few things in the truck and found myself keeping my own company while I shot.
Hmmmm! I wonder why I am all alone?
I wanted to shoot these 45 Gov 405's at 100 to see how close they print to the barrel sight. I only waded out to the 50y and stuck up my paper target.
The loaded rounds turned out nice. I lubed the cast bullets with Eagle BP lube and seated them over 63grs of Elephant FFg and a fiber wad. Five of them are shown with the rifle.

They printed into a nice group but a little high. I think the Elephant powder, which was not known as a "strong powder" and the lighter than full 70gr load is the reason. I used Starline cases which hold less powder than the WW cases.
I wanted to load "all" operations with the Lyman tool. Thus, I did not compress very much .....with the bullet. Winchester cases paired with FFg Swiss powder ....even FFFg should show groups a little closer to point of aim.


I took a number of shots at 100ys also. I aimed above the target stands into the clean snow. At that distance the rifle printed about 6-8 inches high too. I will guess the velocity to be at 1150 fps and a strong load of Swiss will start this bullet at 1325fps maybe. The rifle has a ladder barrel sight and with the ladder up I have made easy hits on steel targets at 200y, 300y and 400y. I have not tried beyond that.
During the 40 rounds I shot I did not clean, wipe or blowtube; the accuracy did not drop off that I could really tell.
MichaelRix

[Lead pot]

Well at least you don't need the bear paws yet
I go to the range when the weather is not fit like in the rain so I have the range to myself. People come around to ask questions and shoot the breeze when I shoot.

[Walker]

The end of this story should be drying meat and wearing skins.


Owen

Its a common misconception about the wearing of skins. maybe the red man did but not the guys carrying "boom boom sticks".

[Don McDowell]

Good job Michael.

[cajun shooter]

Don, I have the old Ideal tool for the 44WCF that I purchased years ago. I talked to a man who studied the history on these tools and he told me that my tool did come with a decapper piece that was always lost because they were held in the tool when closed but often not put back when finished loading. I was able to locate one that is now with my tool, I had to pay $50 for it plus shipping.
My tool is an 1880's tool and it drops bullets at .425 which was the original size of the 44 WCF bores.
I tried to sit down one evening and do a bullet making session over an outdoor fire to see what it was like. As you stated, it does not take too many bullets to make the mold impossible to hold onto. I have nothing but the upmost respect for these men who used these tools.
I would hope that had I lived during those times that I would of been a person who was not rich but had a few extra bucks in his pocket. A case of 44WCF sold for about $19 a thousand . Later David

[Hang Fire]

Here is a six die set for .44-40, I also have a three die tool for .45-70.

[Lead pot]

It was common practice when those tools were used to wrap leather shoe laces or strips covering the handles.
I used to use the iron handled moulds covered with leather shoe laces.

[Don McDowell]

David, back in those days 19$ was probably more than a months salary..

I think if I was going to use this tool a lot I'ld sure take some leather lace and do a Marlin tie on each handle, altho by the time it gets uncomfortable to handle wearing leather gloves, the grease is running out of the hinge pin, and it's probably time to quit.. I'm pretty sure they never intended the outfit to make more than 50 rounds at a time.

[Chill Wills]

David, .. I'm pretty sure they never intended the outfit to make more than 50 rounds at a time.

I think this is very true. Unless you are gearing up for war, If you are down to one or two rounds, making a fist full of cartridges goes a long way. Rifles were tools. Fill the magazine and some in a pouch with your kit maybe.

It's warm today and I am headed out to melt some lead.... -before I have to get back to the "to do's".

[cajun shooter]

Hang Fire, the tools we were speaking about were the ones that came with some rifles and known as a all in one tool. You were able to cast a bullet with the one cavity mold, size the case mouth, decap and prime, expand the case mouth and seat a bullet to the correct length. My tool shows signs of being struck with another hard object as it has small indentations on one handle.
I was making fun about sitting down and loading a bunch with these tools. I'm sure that a session that supplied the owner with as few as 5-10 rounds was quite the norm.
My tool was nickel and still has about 75% of the original finish.