Front Band styles ?

[6.5X284ever]

Hi all, new caster here, have a question about different front band styles. I am looking at Accurate Mold's website, so many to choose from ! I am primarily interested in the wide meplat boolits. I am noticing some with a more "bold" or substantial front band, similar to Keith boolits (43-250P), and some with a more "subtle" front band similar to LBT boolits (43-250V). Both front band styles are full diameter. Other than the front bands, the boolits look the same. I am interested in these 2 for Ruger Flattop 44 Special that I have inbound. Velocity 950-1050fps +-. Is there an advantage to one over the other ? Pro's, Con's ? I plan to powder coat.

[stubshaft]

I have had many conversations with Veral at LBT over the years and have become a firm believer in his bullet designs. I virtually gave up on HP bullets in favor of wide meplat designs and their ability to quickly and humanely kill animals while providing stellar accuracy. I have used Keith type bullets in the past and have also taken a fair amount of game with them also, but given the choice I will go with the wide meplat longer bearing surface front band.

[Bigslug]

You'll hear "Fit Is King" a lot on this forum with regards to getting the diameter sized right for the barrel and having a bullet that interfaces well with the chamber throat and rifling leade.

I would moderate this with the caution "the damn gun has to work first".

I'm a big fan of the Ranch Dog designs, and while the NOE TL359-178-RF is a great shooter, I've found it won't reliably chamber in three different Rugers when seated to the crimp groove in .357 brass, owing to it taking the front band diameter just a little too far forward (the S&W's like it fine).

So while there is an argument for snuggling up the front band as close to the lands or chamber mouth as possible, I want enough slop in the system to where a revolver round will plunk into the chamber or a rifle will close up without beating the bolt handle down. The cartridge case will keep the bullet aligned until contact is made farther forward, so there really isn't a need to cram the available space - - ESPECIALLY if you're going to fill some of that available space with paint on your bullets.

You can find a lot of answers to revolver chamber throat length by seating a wide band/unsized bullet long so that it won't plunk in. Once you know where those tapers start and end, you can begin to contemplate bullet designs in earnest.

Word to the wise: buy a pin gauge set.

[6.5X284ever]

You'll hear "Fit Is King" a lot on this forum with regards to getting the diameter sized right for the barrel and having a bullet that interfaces well with the chamber throat and rifling leade.

I would moderate this with the caution "the damn gun has to work first".

I'm a big fan of the Ranch Dog designs, and while the NOE TL359-178-RF is a great shooter, I've found it won't reliably chamber in three different Rugers when seated to the crimp groove in .357 brass, owing to it taking the front band diameter just a little too far forward (the S&W's like it fine).

So while there is an argument for snuggling up the front band as close to the lands or chamber mouth as possible, I want enough slop in the system to where a revolver round will plunk into the chamber or a rifle will close up without beating the bolt handle down. The cartridge case will keep the bullet aligned until contact is made farther forward, so there really isn't a need to cram the available space - - ESPECIALLY if you're going to fill some of that available space with paint on your bullets.

You can find a lot of answers to revolver chamber throat length by seating a wide band/unsized bullet long so that it won't plunk in. Once you know where those tapers start and end, you can begin to contemplate bullet designs in earnest.

Word to the wise: buy a pin gauge set.

So once the gun is here, I can do that test by seating a Keith boolit longer and longer until it sticks, and use that measurement to determine how far forward my band can protrude ? (i already have some PC & sized Keith boolits on hand). Am I correct in thinking that unless the throats are undersized, it should never stick no matter how far forward I seat it ? Unless the thing shoots great when I get it, I will have Fermin ream/uniform the throats in short-order. Already spoke to him about that, and some sights for my 45 Colt Bisley Convertible. Probably just send him 3 cylinders at once (ACP, Colt, 44 SPL).

[Bazoo]

Howdy and welcome 6.5X284ever. The bullets you're looking at are almost identical except for the 43-250P has a semi-wadcutter style front driving band.

Chambering will be nearly the same on either of them, but the 43-250V does have a slightly longer bearing surface, so it's possible it might jam into the transition lead from the chamber to the throats, but I'll guess either would chamber just fine.

Seating a bullet out longer to get a measurement on how large a front driving band you can you have outside the case is exactly how you determine it, and make sure to check all chambers because one might be a bit tighter than the others.

One consideration is that loading is not as smooth using a semi-wadcutter design bullet verses a round flat/wide flat nose type.

I use a lot of the RCBS-44-250-K in my Flattop Blackhawk 44 Special. When I seat the bullet, I seat it as far out in the crimp groove as I can, to an overall length of 1.588. From the base of the cartridge case to the top of the front driving band is 1.252, with cases trimmed to 1.145 (I trim to that length because Starline brass is always a touch short, and I'd rather be consistent even if a touch short). I've not experimented to see what the max driving band I can get away with is, but that one is pretty healthy the way I load it.

The RCBS bullet doesn't load the smoothest, but the Ranch Dog CTL432-265-RF drops right in. The front driving band isn't excessive on this one, but the shape loads well in my Blackhawk, and feeds well in my Winchester 1892 (for that matter, the RCBS 44-250-K feeds well in Special cases too).

Here's my Blackhawk with those RCBS 44-250-K bullets.

[6.5X284ever]

Howdy and welcome 6.5X284ever. The bullets you're looking at are almost identical except for the 43-250P has a semi-wadcutter style front driving band.

Chambering will be nearly the same on either of them, but the 43-250V does have a slightly longer bearing surface, so it's possible it might jam into the transition lead from the chamber to the throats, but I'll guess either would chamber just fine.

Seating a bullet out longer to get a measurement on how large a front driving band you can you have outside the case is exactly how you determine it, and make sure to check all chambers because one might be a bit tighter than the others.

One consideration is that loading is not as smooth using a semi-wadcutter design bullet verses a round flat/wide flat nose type.

I use a lot of the RCBS-44-250-K in my Flattop Blackhawk 44 Special. When I seat the bullet, I seat it as far out in the crimp groove as I can, to an overall length of 1.588. From the base of the cartridge case to the top of the front driving band is 1.252, with cases trimmed to 1.145 (I trim to that length because Starline brass is always a touch short, and I'd rather be consistent even if a touch short). I've not experimented to see what the max driving band I can get away with is, but that one is pretty healthy the way I load it.

The RCBS bullet doesn't load the smoothest, but the Ranch Dog CTL432-265-RF drops right in. The front driving band isn't excessive on this one, but the shape loads well in my Blackhawk, and feeds well in my Winchester 1892 (for that matter, the RCBS 44-250-K feeds well in Special cases too).

Here's my Blackhawk with those RCBS 44-250-K bullets.

Thanks for the reply. 44 SPL will be a new caliber for me, so I'm starting out with all fresh Starline brass, Hopefully won't have to trim. I will have the same barrel length as you, any insights on what velocity you're getting with the Skeeter load (Uniq 7.5/250) ?

[Bigslug]

So once the gun is here, I can do that test by seating a Keith boolit longer and longer until it sticks, and use that measurement to determine how far forward my band can protrude ? (i already have some PC & sized Keith boolits on hand). Am I correct in thinking that unless the throats are undersized, it should never stick no matter how far forward I seat it ? Unless the thing shoots great when I get it, I will have Fermin ream/uniform the throats in short-order. Already spoke to him about that, and some sights for my 45 Colt Bisley Convertible. Probably just send him 3 cylinders at once (ACP, Colt, 44 SPL).

Pretty much. The sizing die process reduces the likelihood of the problem I had. I tumble lube wherever practical to eliminate the sizing process entirely, so while I could have run my NOE Ranch Dogs (aka Accurate 36-175B) through a die, dedicating that one to .38 Special length brass and designing the 36-170C for .357 cases served my needs better.

Having had snug fit bullets fit one day and hang up the next, or like my Ranch Dogs, work in Smiths but not in Rugers soured me a little on chasing optimum theoreticals to extremes. Practical pistol accuracy can be attained with a lot less riding close to the edge of failure to chamber, and you won't exactly be chasing the long range precision dragon with those sledgehammers you're contemplating anyway.

Mainly, I'm just saying measure the gun and learn what it wants. You may find there's plenty of clearance for a robust front band, some PC, a little bit of fouling, and some post-sizing alloy springback. Odds are, your front band diameter will be veeeeeery close to throat diameter. When the bullet is sitting in the case, I want the front edge of that band to be behind the throat, not right at or in it.

More bearing surface IS better, but not at the point where you have to force chambering with a finger and poke out the "not quites" with a stick.

[Bazoo]

Nice, I love the short barreled Blackhawks, both the flattops and regulars. I carry that 44 daily in a Simply Rugged sourdough pancake holster.

I've not chronographed the Sketter load from it, so I can't say. I have shot a few Skeeter loads, but very few. The ones I shot were accurate from what I could tell, but I got busy and haven't experimented much in a while. I mostly shoot standard pressure loads such as 4.8 Bullseye under the aforementioned 44-250-K or 5.5 Unique under a RCBS 44-240-SWC. I've not chronographed them yet, but I they shoot good enough to satisfy me.

This is 18 consecutive shots; 6 shots, then 12 shots on another target.