.218 Bee

[bensonwe]

Good evening all, I've ran into a headscratcher. I'm loading for this .218 Bee and seemed to run out of accuracy. I've gotten it to shot 2 1/2" groups at 50 yards from poor accuracy at purchase. I'm shooting cast 45 grain with gaschecks. H4895 is the powder I've settled on with CCI 400 small rifle primers. I started with 6.0 grains increased by 10%. I'm now at 9.5 grains. I've tried Lilgun, Accrate 2230, Unique, No5, Hp38, Win 748 and H380. The rifle has a Williams peep. I slugged the Bore .223 and rifling .219. The boolits are sized .223 - .225. If I'm missing some info please let me know. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

[square butte]

What are you shooting them out of? Have you checked the crown at the muzzle

[bensonwe]

Win 43. Muzzle doesn't show any noticeable damage and mics decent but I only have a hand held micrometer.

[country gent]

Bore condition. while you give group size how many shots? fliers or overall large group?
Full length size or neck size? first time brass or fire formed to the rifle? How many firings on the brass?

I have a 218 bee on a martinni cadet. It is a nice round. experiment with primers. seating depth bullet lube. That bullet dosnt carry a lot of lube so youll want a good one. I believe the model 43 had a 24" barrel so thats also going to want more lube.

[bensonwe]

The bore is OK. The throat is not the best. I shot 3 round groups off a bench. They are all full length sized as I don't have a neck sizer. The boolit grooves are full of lube. I think the bore is causing my problems and this may be the best it will be. Your thought of different primer may help. I didn't think of that but will try.

[Texas by God]

How does it shoot with jacketed bullets- for an accuracy baseline?


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[Shell knob]

Just a thought. I keep a few jacketed bullets around to load to compare accuracy, if I can find them. Most of my shooting interest is obsolete Winchester cartridges. I do have a mod 43, and it shoots like a laser, although I haven’t cast for it yet, it’s on the long list of things to do.

[cwtebay]

My Model 43 shoots sub moa with jacketed bullets. Drops to 1.5-2 with cast. She's my go to gopher gun that sits in her throne by my door for the critters and crazies. I went hard in the paint on this rifle with cast - but she likes cast and loves jackets. I don't argue with her anymore.


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[bensonwe]

I did try jacketed bullets and it keyholed everyone. I tried the same powders as above but not as may different combinations.

[beshears]

Was the barrel originally a Rim Fire?

[speedyr]

also when you are trying different primers, toss in some small pistol primers into a load that's close or a couple to try. I know with the Hornets, many people find better groups with small pistol primers. I load for Hornet and Bee but just starting to try at 55gr Lee 225 I picked up in the Hornet and Bee (and will keep my eye out for a lighter bullet I can use in both, my 218 is a lever gun so will have to stick with a FN profile).

[Texas by God]

It sounds like the problem is the rifle, not the cartridge. Tell us about the rifle, please.
Whoops sorry. Re-reading I see that it is a m43 Winchester.
The one I had shot very well, but I never tried cast in it.
Perhaps it does need recrowning.


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[Eddie Southgate]

My m 43 puts 35 grain Vmax bullets into bug holes at 100 yards with 12.5 -13 grains of w680, Littlegun, or AA1680 with small pistol primers. That's with a 4x scope . It would do 1"-1 1/4" with the factory open sights at 100 when I got it but it was more like 2 1/4" the last time I could see them well enough to try them at that distance. Never shot any lead loads in it.

[gc45]

My SS baby sharps shoots very close to 1/2 inch at 75 yards most of the time. I have a unertyl 8x scope on top, use 1680 powder vmax bullets. Sometimes 4198 does very well too but I hate loading that stuff. Some 43 winchesters were accurate, some not so much, they were never intended to be target rifles.

[bensonwe]

I dont think it was a rimfire barrel prior. At least it doesnt appear to have been. Small pistol primers are next. I don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks Speedyr.

[Mk42gunner]

Other than trying small pistol primers, (the .218 Bee isn't all that much larger than a .22 Hornet and it tends to respond well to small pistol primers). How is the lockup/ headspace of your rifle?

I seem to recall there being a bit of an issue with Winchester Model 43 bolts. I think it was discussed in the gunsmithing section.

Keyholing jacketed doesn't seem to be a headspace issue though. Just how rough is the throat?

Bedding, is it solid? It has been thirty or more years since I had a Model 43, but it seems like the bedding was more along the lines of a .22 than a larger centerfire rifle. May be something to investigate.

Robert

[turtlezx]

older 22 hornets were taking .224 bullets not sure on the bee.I would look for some Js at .224 dia to try . And dont go over 45gr

[white eagle]

sounds like there is something amiss with the rifle
keyholing jackets and not getting accuracy with cast
is this a factory made rifle or is it something someone put together or rechambered?
the rimfire rechamber sounds like a real possibility that was common practice in that time frame
Where are you from in S. Wisconsin?

[stubshaft]

What size "M" die are you expanding the necks to? It doesn't make any difference what you size the bullet if the case reduces the diameter.