first cast in 15 years: 45-70 boolits ...

[wquiles]

OK guys, great temps today here in Texas so I cast some boolits today for my 45-70, this being a two-cavity Accurate mold for the Ranch Dog 355gr gas checked design (460-355RG).

As you guys here in the forum recommended, I warmed everything I used in the lead pot, including the mold itself:



I had a small, but comfy area, with a fan running for ventilation:



To get started I followed the advice of trying the Isotope ingots "as is" first, and although I know I can do the water drop, I decided to try first the air cooled first (each of those is about 1 pound 14-15oz):



This is how things looked at the end of today's casting session:














I got a little lead smearing on top of the mold (between the mold and cutting sprew), some were not uniform, some did not have a well defined base, etc.. I probably made every single mistake possible today. I lube the mold with Kroil the night before, and once I got to temperature the bullets fell out easily - only a few needed a light tap to come out.

As I was casting them I threw back all of the ones that were "obviously" bad (specially at the beginning - I have not cast bullets in about 15 years!), and I still need to go through them and check them visually, check them for size, and weight.

I cast first with the smaller Lyman bottom pour ladle, and ended with the Rowell Ladle #1. The 20 pound Lee pot is a tad small for a ladle (specially the larger #1), but I liked the bigger #1 as it had more lead to pour over the top as the cavities filled up.

More experimenting to do. I might cast another batch tomorrow, so that I have a chance to remelt the rejects once I check them out tomorrow.

Will

[waco]

Well they look good to me! Let us know how they shoot! Happy turkey day!

[Beagle333]

Well it started out looking waaaay too clean.... but by the 4th pic, it looked better.
Nice boolits!!!

[Down South]

I got a little lead smearing on top of the mold (between the mold and cutting sprew)

Wait a little longer before cutting the sprue. Your Boolits look great.

[wquiles]

After I checked them up close, most all of them had some defects/irregularities, so I ended up melting most of them back. The few that looked good, were closer to .459" (.460" was the target), but that was because I used a different alloy (Isotope) than the one I specified (Lyman #2) when I had the mold cut by Tom. I will go ahead and shot those that look good just for fun/practice.

So I decided to mix 2-to-1 Isotope and Linotype in order to better approach Lyman #2, and cast bullets again this last weekend. I first cast using my modified Lee 45-70, 459, 405HB mold, and of course the Accurate 46-355RG again. This time I kept all of the bullets in the order they were cast, unless it was an obvious defect.

First the Lee mold:



These were cast going left to right, first the back row, then the front row. The temp was very stable at about 750F, but obviously the mold temperature varied quite a bit between cast to cast:



I then cast with the Accurate mold. Again, left to right, back row, then middle row, then front row:



Closer look at the Accurate bullets. These are most/all frosted, since I learned from my first casting session that this mold won't work well colder, so I kept the mold hotter:







I then lined them up in the same order, and after eliminating that front-row, second to the left, I checked the weight and diameter of each one. As expected, the heavier bullets had a slightly larger diameter:




Since I was casting slow, and the pot temp was very stable, the mold temperature and my technique obviously need more practice. Also good to note that now with the alloy closer to Lyman #2, I am a "lot" closer to the .460" dia, which is great since the bore in my riffle was about .459".

Now I have to decide how to "sort" them, which I guess meaning throwing out the lighter and heaviest ones out, to remain with a more "consistent" lot?

Advice/tips to further improve my boolits?

Will

[Terrence Clarke]

I also use that mold but spec at .462, nothing wrong with frosted bullets,all shoot good in marlin xlr

[Artful]

I use the bell curve grading system.



I have two balance beam scales I set up.

the ones that are too light all go back into the pot.
on the picture the black thru the orange would be too light...

the ones that are heavy enough to go thru both scales are set for long range/match
on the picture the blue and the green.

the ones that are heavy enough to go thru the light scale but not enough to tip the heavy scale are again visually inspected then set aside for practice shooting with expectations of some flyers.
The Yellow range in the bell curve picture.

The biggest issue is the base of the bullet if that's not uniform it throws them out of the group.

[wquiles]

I also use that mold but spec at .462, nothing wrong with frosted bullets,all shoot good in marlin xlr

Cool - thanks

I use the bell curve grading system.



I have two balance beam scales I set up.

the ones that are too light all go back into the pot.
on the picture the black thru the orange would be too light...

the ones that are heavy enough to go thru both scales are set for long range/match
on the picture the blue and the green.

the ones that are heavy enough to go thru the light scale but not enough to tip the heavy scale are again visually inspected then set aside for practice shooting with expectations of some flyers.
The Yellow range in the bell curve picture.

The biggest issue is the base of the bullet if that's not uniform it throws them out of the group.

Very nice - thanks. Now, I remember my statistical classes, and typically (not talking about bullets - but samples around a particular target weight) one would keep the orange and yellow since those would be the ones closest to the "target". Typically one gets rid of the lightest and heaviest samples as those are further from the "target".



But in this case, when doing cast bullets, you actually want to keep the heaviest ones as your premium ones? What makes the heaviest bullets the ones to keep? Is that (I am guessing) because they are the most "full" and likely the ones with fewer voids/internal imperfections? Or could it also be (as I found above) that the heavier bullets tend to also have a slightly larger diameter as well?

[Artful]

You understand perfectly
- the ones with no voids will be heaviest and hence most "perfect" in theory.
Those with minor voids you can still shoot for practice at closer ranges
but the more void the more out of balance and the worse it will group.

You can also get variations in bullet weight from changes in mold temperature and pot temperature and how tightly you hold the handles. To eliminate variable for more
consistent group sizes you segregate by weight. This even applies to stuff like 22LR ammo.

The other thing I like is to either lube and shot as cast (not sizing) or having as cast size being very close to the sizing die size, the more you have to mash the bullet around the more it can
hurt accuracy. That's why I have 30 caliber molds that throw from .312 to .308 to match the
rifles needs.

[zuke]

They look great to me!

[wquiles]

You understand perfectly
- the ones with no voids will be heaviest and hence most "perfect" in theory.
Those with minor voids you can still shoot for practice at closer ranges
but the more void the more out of balance and the worse it will group.

You can also get variations in bullet weight from changes in mold temperature and pot temperature and how tightly you hold the handles. To eliminate variable for more
consistent group sizes you segregate by weight. This even applies to stuff like 22LR ammo.

The other thing I like is to either lube and shot as cast (not sizing) or having as cast size being very close to the sizing die size, the more you have to mash the bullet around the more it can
hurt accuracy. That's why I have 30 caliber molds that throw from .312 to .308 to match the
rifles needs.

Thank you "very" much. I am always learning new things in this great forum

They look great to me!

Thanks. Work in progress - I hope with more practice to become more consistent.

[Geezer in NH]

Frost good to me

[John Guedry]

Nothing wrong with any of 'em.

[Artful]

So when you going to shoot some and post a target?

[plainsman456]

I have personal knowledge that a 325+- weight bullit will go through 2 water heaters at 100 yards and keep going.

Shot about 1700fps,with some H-322 powder out of a Marlin rifle.
Was checking zero after getting a shot at a hog a few weeks ago,he ran off after being shot behind the shoulder,he was about 2 1/2 ft. tall and all black.
Thought i missed or maybe i needed harder bullits.
Now for some more shooting.Keep up the good work.
Most of all shoot them and let us know how they do.

[wquiles]

I actually shot a few at 50yards from the bench last week, but I am still working on getting a consistent hold on my rifle, which is a little bit more "tricky" since it is a single shot that I have to open & close for each shot. First was the custom LEE mold, then the Ranch Dog design. I am sure the rifle with these loads can do much better - I just need more practice.

[62chevy]

If you want to be consistent at casting Good Steel has a tread on just that.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=cast Worth the read.

[wquiles]

If you want to be consistent at casting Good Steel has a tread on just that.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...highlight=cast Worth the read.

Wow, nice thread. Reading it now for a second time - good tips in there!

[wquiles]

You guys are awesome. With the feedback you gave me, I did another session of casting yesterday with a new mold (Accurate 300Gr Ranch Dog design - 46-300DG), and increased the lead temperature to 800F, and developed a more consistent rhythm on the casting, which keep the mold at a more consistent temp (about the same time for the sprue puddle to solidify), and even though this is a smaller boolit (actual 286gr with my alloy) instead of the earlier 343gr boolit, the SD and variability went down. Things are definitely clicking in place now






Yesterday I had "far" less rejects. Very significant improvement, so I did 3x batches where I replenish/add new ingots, flux, and wait for the temperature to get back to 800F to start. From top to bottom), air dropped #1, air dropped #2, and water dropped. The water dropped ones came out OK (more shinny and less frosted than the air cooled ones), but I need a deeper container next time - even though I had soft rags, I still had a few surface blemishes when then hit other bullets as they cool off.





For now I threw away everything in the "light" category, and a few "super heavy" ones as well - well outside of the group, and then grouped the air cooled ones and water cooled ones in two groups - the grade A (better ones) and grade B (practice):



Definitely making progress. Thanks guys!

Will

[wquiles]

My Lee hardness tester came today and it was perfect timing to check the air cooled vs. water dropped bullets. My alloy is 2-to-1 Isotope Lead Ingots to Linotype, which the Lead alloy calculator estimated at 14.7 hardness (air cooled). With the Lee tester (bullet on the right) it came right at 14.3 (very close), and the water dropped (on the left) came at a whooping 26!. The Lee handout stated that I at 14.3 I am good up to 18367 psi, which is exactly the level of the trapdoor loads I am using at the moment - about perfect for the plan base bullets with this alloy. Since my bullets have a gas check, and the boolits are 0.002" over the bore I should be in great shape. The water cooled boolits should allow pressures in the 33K psi range - wow!.