First shot accuracy from YOUR rifle FOR HUNTING OR TARGET...how do YOU achieve it?

[35 shooter]

When coming back to cast shooting after a many year lay-off from it and also my first attempt with cast in modern rifles, this is what plagued me the most...first shot flyers.
I got lucky with my rifle (encore 35 whelen) i guess in that no matter the lube i could fire one shot and it would start grouping, except for the first shot. It didn't seem to matter if i left it fouled or cleaned it after shooting...the first cold bbl. shot was out of the group and sometimes way out. I did like the fact that i only had to fire one fouler though. I finally figured out a system that put the first shots in or very close to poi for me. Now i have a system with two different lubes that i don't have to worry about that all important first shot for hunting.

I've seen threads here(some lately)where folks were having problems with this very thing and felt it would be interesting and helpful to start a thread dealing with this very thing. I think a lot of members might benefit from it.
Not a thread about the BEST LUBE, but rather what you do with YOUR gun and lube to get that first shot in there.
I would imagine a pattern will emerge as to what lubes are most popular and helpful in this regard.
But regardless of lube, what is your method for first shot accuracy?

I'll go first with what i have found with two lubes.
First with r5r's Simple lube (very easy and quick to make) and Ben's Red lube, after shooting i run ONE patch of atf oil through the chamber back and forth, then turn the same patch over and run it straight through the bore and out the end...remove the patch and do not bring it back through the bbl.
Second...when going hunting or shooting again I run ONE dry patch through the chamber back and forth...then turn the Same patch over and run it through the bore and out the end...remove the patch before pulling the cleaning rod out. Again, do not pull the patch back through. Just once through the bore and out the end.
This leaves a thin layer of atf oil in the bore and my first shots from a cold bore are ready for hunting or target

The results with this method in MY rifle are...with Simple lube the first shot will be centered but 1 to 2" high @ 100 yds.. Not a problem for hunting at all as long as i know it's there. Simply adds a bit of "yonder" on the first shot but works for most hunting.
The results for Ben's Red with the same method is the first shot is within the group and most of the time it's centered right from the first shot. NEVER is it far from center and in the group.

Again, this is from MY rifle and took some experimenting to get to. I know all rifles are a bit different, but hope this may work for some. Atf may not work with every lube but with a bit of work i' bet you can find something that will work along these lines.

Now...how do YOU do it? What works for YOU?

[btroj]

I use a lube that is up to the task. I like MML for cold weather use. I clean the barrel well then shoot 10 to 20 rounds to foul the bore. I then leave the rifle as is.

This all assumes I already have the rifle sighted in and know it the load leads or anything. Years back I used a load in my 45-70 that did lead a bit after 10 to 15 rounds. That rifle got cleaned, had 5 shots fired then left alone.

I think a brushing or a clean patch is fine. I don't want a clean bore and nothing oily down the bore.

My method is predicated on using the lubes I use. If I was using a different lube I would want to verify the cold barrel, fouled bore, first shot accuracy.

This is an excellent thread idea. If you don't know exactly how your load performs in your rifle froma cold barrel then you are opening the door to frustration and misses.

[geargnasher]

I've done it all sorts of ways, including the pre-treat with appropriate oil for the bullet lube used. Easiest way is use a lube that doesn't fling the first one to begin with, and never clean your barrel.

Gear

[35 shooter]

Thanks so much for kicking this thread off to a good start guys. This is exactly what i'm hoping for here. Straight forward Info and experienced advice on this one very important aspect of cast shooting that seems to plague so many.
Truly hope it helps someone....including me!

If you have a different method or technique, by all means put it here!
This very problem almost ran me nuts for almost a year with my rifle trying different things. Now i have total hunting confidence in it and that's a very good feeling.
I'm hoping this will help someone who might otherwise give up on cast boolit hunting realize there are options to try out to get that first shot in there with their rifles under hunting conditions.

[Lonegun1894]

The only gun I have that does this is a .30-30 Marlin, and I just fire a shot before putting it away and this is enough to avoid it. The rest don't seem to have a problem. But then again, I tend to shoot cast almost exclusively, and most of mine get used as dedicated cast shooters, so get threated like most people treat a .22 LR--clean the action, and leave the bore alone.

[GhostHawk]

I think the important thing to note here is that if your lube is perhaps not totally up to the job your asking of it. One of those first symptoms can often be a first shot flyer.

There are lots of lubes out there and loads of recipes if you just go look.

I just ordered a can of the Johnson liquid wax so I can try a small batch of Ben's Brown or the Liquid lube.

The old NRA pre alox lube of Beeswax, Paraffin and Vaseline interests me, but I will probably use DIY Vaseline that is equal parts Beeswax, coconut oil and Olive or Canola oil, or Dextron II or III. (I'm really liking the Dextron 3 for lubricating cleaning guns)

What happens to the old NRA lube if you sub some of the Beeswax and Paraffin for some of that Johnson's liquid?

Or Coconut oil and Dextron III for Vaseline?

How you guys keep it all straight amazes me.

Rock on guys!

[Hickok]

If I have a squeaky clean bore, I take some boolit lube that is the same I lube the slugs with, use the stick of lube like a crayon and coat a patch and rub down the bore with it.

Sometimes after shooting cast, I simply run a clean patch down the bore, and then leave the bore as is.

[geargnasher]

I think the important thing to note here is that if your lube is perhaps not totally up to the job your asking of it. One of those first symptoms can often be a first shot flyer.

There are lots of lubes out there and loads of recipes if you just go look.

I just ordered a can of the Johnson liquid wax so I can try a small batch of Ben's Brown or the Liquid lube.

The old NRA pre alox lube of Beeswax, Paraffin and Vaseline interests me, but I will probably use DIY Vaseline that is equal parts Beeswax, coconut oil and Olive or Canola oil, or Dextron II or III. (I'm really liking the Dextron 3 for lubricating cleaning guns. The "DIY" formula you suggest may work fine, but is completely unlike Petrolatum, and the components you suggest will very much alter the shooting characteristics of the lube. Specific ingredients for specific purposes, we've played enough with components to start seeing trends. In more detail, the beeswax, coconut fat, and Rapeseed oil each contain complex esters and a wide spectrum of fatty acids, all of which are slippery in a rifle bore. Petrolatum is a different animal, I would suggest suggest simply making a batch with grocery store Vaseline and block paraffin, or use Yaley candle paraffin from the hobby store (it's far better stuff than Gulf Wax). Try that so you'll have a baseline for your further experiments.

What happens to the old NRA lube if you sub some of the Beeswax and Paraffin for some of that Johnson's liquid? I'm not sure which product you refer to as "liquid". If you mean the paste finishing wax, it is almost entirely paraffin and napthenic solvents with a dash of carnauba wax. IOW, you could dry it out and sub it for the paraffin in NRA lube, plus have a little carnauba which is sometimes desirable.

Or Coconut oil and Dextron III for Vaseline?

How you guys keep it all straight amazes me.

Rock on guys!

Stick with what works at first, try a few things. Then tweak them as desired.

Gear

[Toymaker]

Good thread, I like this.

After shooting all firearms get a squeaky clean bore. Muzzleloaders get a coating of TriFlo. Everything else gets a coating of oil. If they're being put away for more than 90 days they get a coat of RIG too. Then they fall into three main groups:
Group 1 - muzzle loaders shooting a patched roundball. Before leaving on a hunt they get a cap popped and then a full powder charge with a patch on top. Then a damp patch, down, up and out. Target shooting is the same except I do everything at the range.

Group 2 - muzzle loaders shooting lubed, cast conical or cartridge rifle (black powder) shooting lubed, cast conical. Pre-hunt or target shooting, a patch damped with acetone goes down the bore, up and out. Dry patch, down, up and out. Turn it over and repeat. Muzzle loader gets a cap popped, blank charge fired and the damp patch. Patch saturated with the lube goes down, up and out.

Group 3 - cartridge (smokeless) shooting lubed, cast conical or jacketed. Patch dampened with acetone goes down, up and out. Dry patch goes down, up, out, reversed, down, up and out. A patch saturated with the lube goes down, up and out.

Now, as to the lube: For years I used Darr's lube and was happy with the results. Recently I changed to Ben's Red and am very happy with the results. I have not noticed a significant difference in accuracy. I have noticed a significant difference in clean-up, with Ben's being superior. I smear a little lube on a patch, put it in a little round plastic Zip Lock container and zap it in the microwave for 15 seconds. That's been just enough to melt the lube and get it to soak into the patch. I keep the containers in the shooting boxes. First shot has always been within the group.

This method has worked for every rifle I have EXCEPT an M1 Garand and a custom .243 Mauser. The Garand is (in)famous for throwing the first round out of the group, but the cause is different. The Mauser is new and we're still learning about each other.

Interested in reading some other methods, both successes and failures.

[popper]

Powder coat.

[35 shooter]

Toymaker thanks for the detailed outline of how you do it with a clean bbl. Very interesting indeed!
Like you i'm very interested in all the methods used.

[barrabruce]

I clean with Ed's red without the acetone and leve it till I go shooting again.
smokless cast.
before I shoot I run a dry patch or two to clean out the reds red.
if I,m using pp I run a patch though with my lube. 50/50 beeswax. vasalene roughly.
for cast I do the same and using the same lube for plaibase bullets.

i clean after I shoot when hot/warm then run a bother patch thought when I get home and wipe down and put away.

I can,t even stand to leave my 22lr dirty.
have this phobia about the humidity turning the powder residue to acid or some such.
I don,t clean my cases to compensate.....well maybe wipe the muck or the outside occasioanally.

works prety. good for me and if I do get a first clean cold bore flyer they are predictable.

if I was serious then I would leave the fouling in and run my well used lubed dirty ol patch though to get the powder fouling out.


i have heard people leaving there guns dirty like a 22lr. but never been game to try it here in the heat and humidity.


for long term storage I run some liquid alox and let dry a couple of times.
seemed to have worked so far.
hope it helps.

[shredder]

I've done it all sorts of ways, including the pre-treat with appropriate oil for the bullet lube used. Easiest way is use a lube that doesn't fling the first one to begin with, and never clean your barrel.

Gear

This is interesting to me as this is also my method. Some of what is written here seems like a lot of work and being basically lazy, I have graduated to the "Gear method". I tried sooo many lubes and finally arrived at one that works for me in my rifles with the boolits I cast in the temperatures that I shoot them. Lest this degenerate into a list of conditions that apply only to me, I will say that my lube is speed green - 50-50 bullshop sprue plate lube and beeswax. Immensely simple. Best solution for me. When/if I clean any of my cast shooters it is a simple matter of a few patches of Ed's Red followed by a final clean patch. For sure when the bore is clean it takes a few foulers to get back in the bullseye. This is the reason I really have all but stopped cleaning any of my cast rifles. I figure they will tell me when to clean by having groups open up and wild fliers appearing. Since this does not seem to happen, ever, I will happily continue to push lubed lead out the bore until it does!

BTW, Great subject, so very many differences in so many rifles. Sure to be an interesting read. Carry on......

[geargnasher]

Shredder, next time you're breaking in a new rifle, or starting "fresh" in any gun after a thorough cleaning, try making your Ed's with Bullplate instead of ATF for cleaning and pre-lube the bore with a patch smeared with the bullet lube you use. Jitterbug the lubed patch through the bore and follow with one or two dry patches before shooting.

Gear