Can We Talk Swede Gallery Powder?

[shoggoth80]

Hey all. I recently grabbed several hundred of the wood tipped cartridges. I plan to load these with reduced cast loads. I'm very likely going to charge them with IMR 4227. However, I am a waste not, want not type...and would like to repurpose this powder. The cases contain just under 24gr of this stuff...of the samples 23.8 and 23.9 consistently. I could load a lot of reduced rifle loads, or a large number of pistol rounds.

Reading says this stuff is very similar to Unique. Does anyone know if faster or slower? If the statement is true, I should be able to make loads for all calibers I currently own and load for, and calibers I intend to load for (guns I am buying, but have not paid off yet).

Calibers
.45acp
9x18
7x57
8x57
6.5x55

I can find Unique loads for all of these. Math tells me that I will have about 1.3lbs of powder if I can scavenge it all.

Thoughts?

[Yodogsandman]

That charge is almost twice as much as a Unique cast bullet load in 6.5x55.

[shoggoth80]

Well, yes. That charge is meant to shoot an ultra light piece of wood. Launching a real projectile with that much pistol powder behind it would be very dangerous.

What I'm saying is that 400x almost 24 is a fair amount of reclaimed powder...which in theory should be ok to load cast boolits with approximately the same data as Unique? Also, does anyone have more precise data on loading? I see a lot of 10gr, 10.5gr with this "gallery powder." Also, reading a translation of info said the powder is the same in the wood projectiles as the little metal cups. Rough English approximation "practice powder #1."

[kawasakifreak77]

Where do you come up with these wood tip cartridges & what do they cost?

Berdan primed I assume eh?

[shoggoth80]

Berdan primed, non corrosive. Samco and Sportsman's Guide I think. Cost depends on whether you get boxed or belted.

[starmac]

I am missing something, apparently they are already loaded, are the wrong cartridge for your use.

[shoggoth80]

They are wood projectile training cartridges. I have read several threads, and watches videos of them being pulled apart, and reloading the primed brass. Occasionally I have read of people reusing the powder, though not the full charge. I have read, from threads on here, that it is similar to Unique. I'm trying to determine if it burns faster, slower, or the same, and if anyone has developed loads with it for the above listed calibers...because I would rather not just throw the powder away.

[garandsrus]

Search for posts by Dutchmen. He has posted about reusing the powder. I have pulled several hundred rounds so far and am saving the powder. The brass worked well with full power jacketed loads using a different powder.

Here's one of the threads: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch...p/t-45570.html

[kawasakifreak77]

Man that'd be sweet to get cheap Swede cases with a Unique like powder inside them!

Does the powder meter well?

I'm always looking for powder similar to Unique & am building a custom Swedish Mauser so it'd be win win for me.

[shoggoth80]

Yeah, that "mystery powder" thread is probably one of the better bits of information I have found on the stuff. I am not sure how the powder meters just yet, as I am tearing down the cartridges, and bagging the brass, and saving the powder. The powder that is in them is close to 24gr, which from everything I have read is pretty much lethal to just load a projectile over. I have seen targets of folks who have used 10.5-12gr of the stuff over a cast boolit to decent effect. I am trying to figure out exactly how close to Unique this stuff is...trying a lot of different Google searches.

The cases I have received have some minor surface corrosion and staining on most. I'm not overly worried about it. I've seen uglier stuff. I'm also not going full power loadings. The berdan primed case is kind of a one shot for me, unless I start learning to convert (which is a possibility). However, I plan to tumble the **** out of them, as that seems to be the solution for eliminating the staining. Tumbled some for 3 ish hours, and it looked better. Read of some guys tumbling a couple days at a time, some a week. Time will tell. Lol. I'd like my brass looking better than not, though not the largest concern ever.

I have learned that you WILL lose some of the cases to the wooden projectile breaking off below the neck. I've managed to dig the rest of the wood out on all of them and recoup the powder, and have run some of them through the neck sizing die, and managed to save them. I think so far I have lost about 10-15 cases, with another 50 or so to still pull down. Still, if this works, it's not a bad deal between primed brass and powder with some homework.

[kawasakifreak77]

Yeah I really like where this is going, keep us updated!

[shoggoth80]

The brass has been tumbling in fresh walnut media for a day, and the cases are getting shiny, except for where the staining is on them, but even that is slowly coming off. One of the wooden tips came out (I loosely reinserted some as a media stopper), and it's apparently coarse enough to not get into the flash holes. This is a convenient finding.

I'm sure this topic had been done to death some time ago...but it is new to me, and at least a few others. Depending on how fast my next paycheck goes, I may nab some more of these. I don't even have a Swede Mauser yet...it's on layaway though. Don't want to have a rifle, and nothing to feed it. Lol. I did purchase some Prvi for it too.

[shoggoth80]

So, I got the first bunch of cases tumbled clean. Took a couple days, and a little steel wool for the toughest stains. But, they are shiny, and I would feel good about the appearance of a finished product with them. Not directly related to the powder, except this is where the powder came from.

[kawasakifreak77]

If you want your cases to come out like gold, squirt in a tablespoon or two of mag wheel polish & mix it in.

Keep up the good work!

[shoggoth80]

Not so worried about making my cases ultra polished. Clean is good. The last bit of them is gonna take some effort and time.
However, notes on how the powder meters. It seems to measure out pretty damned consistent, and easy from my RCBS powder trickle. It's nice large flake pistol powder, and my scale seems to like it. A lot less fickle than say, N320 in getting juuuust the exact amount poured out.

I have some experimental loads to try. Using Unique loading data, I loaded lower than the starting data I have, but stop shy of the max charge for the data I have. I plan to go to the range, and start with what should be super soft target loads, and shoot strings, while keeping an eye on the cases, and primer pockets, and how the rounds print on target. If I find the sweet spot, I stop. If I hit signs of pressure, I stop. Not the most scientific (I don't yet have a chronograph)...but it's my pistol, and my hands. Lol. Also, based on what I have read, I should be well within a margin of safety. My COAL is even a bit more than that listed in the manuals where I sourced the Unique load data from.

I'll be punching 200gr cast SWC. Basically the Oregon Trail laser cast bullet. Hoping to go Weekend after next payday (so the 20th at the soonest)... but I'll be sure to give some feedback in case anyone else is curious.

[kawasakifreak77]

Sounds like you have a good handle on the situation. Thanks for describing the metering caracteristics.

I'd be very interested to hear what you find in your loads. I need to get off my butt & get some of these!

[Dutchman]

I am trying to figure out exactly how close to Unique this stuff is...trying a lot of different Google searches.

Exactly? You won't find anything as fine as "exactly" on this powder. There is no way to test burn rate outside a laboratory. It is an inexact practice that requires some degree of prudence. I didn't blaze the trail with this powder so I followed those who used it before me and I followed some of their load data in rifles with cast bullets and some handgun loads in .38 Special and .45 acp. Some say its a bit faster than Unique. Using Lee dippers the gallery powder will weigh a tiny bit more than Unique in the same dipper. This may result in more "poop" per grain than Unique.

Dutch

[Dutchman]

This below is from a thread on gunboards when I was making attempts to research this powder further:

Brisant Krut ---- Lös Patron & Kammerpatron

In Mattson's book, Handvapnen Och Deras Vård (small arms and their care) there is a paragraph that mentions the powder used in the Lös Patron (wooden bullet blanks).

Till laddningen användes ett mera brisant krut än vid den skarpa ammunitionen, benämnt gevärsexerciskrut I.

Google translate: used to charge a more brisant gunpowder than by live ammunition, rifle drill called gunpowder I.

Google translate couldn't translate brisant. So I went looking and the English equivalent is brisance. But god help you if you wanted to define brisance! Since I graduated high school and made it through college english I knew brisant was the adjective describing the noun, krut. This is what you mostly get: Brisance is the shattering capability of an explosive.

Well... that doesn't tell me anything but this does: Brisance is a measure of the rapidity with which an explosive develops its maximum pressure.
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tm.../Brisance.html

Why couldn't they just say it was a FAST powder? That is apparently all it's saying. Gevärexercisekrut 1 is a faster powder than regular live ammunition, i.e. patron m/41. This much we have known since Anders supplied the original translation to Dana Jones for Crown Jewels.

For the powder description of kammerpatron m/12: krutet är av samma slag, som användes i de lösa påtronerna eller gevärexercisekrut 1.

gunpowder is of the same type used in the blank cartridges or rifle drill gunpowder 1.

Mattson's book was published in 1916 and was a standard textbook used in Swedish officer training/schooling.

[Gunfreak25]

Holy thread resurrection batman.....I've loaded up the Swede gallery powder treated as Unique. 13 and 14 grains in a .43 Mauser case behind a 405 grain bullet was a light load, mild recoil, sounds like a pistol going off. Shoots good at 100 yards, anything over and it drops pretty quick. Cases did not fully fireform to fit (using 45-90 brass) unlike the full house blackpowder loads that fire formed the brass perfectly. So this is very usable powder, I feel for those who dumped the stuff in the garden. It's NOT blank powder by any means. But ya'll do what you want!

[JMax]

I just got 400 cases for $20 and loaded some up with IMR4227 and 2400 under my NOE 140-268. Off to the range tomorrow to see how they work. About a third would not fit in my Dillon 550 but fit in my RCBS shell holder on my T7 for neck sizing. The guy that I got it from has another 3600 loaded rounds in sealed packaging for $100. If all works out for me I will buy the lot.