Sealing a gunstock before finishing

[fourarmed]

I'm in the sanding stage of a gunstock. Got to wondering if anybody ever tried a product called wood restorer for the initial sealing of one. It is a thin liquid that you slop onto wood that has gotten punky, and it penetrates and hardens, giving strength and water-resistance to the wood. I'm thinking it might make a good sealer for walnut. Paint it on inside and out, then sand it off the surface when dry and start applying the oil.

[JSH]

Nope Bob, never even heard of it. I have seen a fellow at a a couple of shows (local) that has some oils and what not to restore with. I think Kenneth, Viv's son bought some to refinish his old 22, I will ask him as I know he has not done it yet.
I like a BUNCH of tung oil and then several coats of floor wax. Makes a stock look like a stock and not a lamp post.
Jeff

[stocker]

Try using spar grade urethane diluted with about 30-40% mineral spirits. Keep putting on coats over a period of days until the surface glazes up. Allow to dry very hard over the next couple of weeks. Wet sand the glaze off to the wood surface with 320 grit wet or dry paper using a wetting agent composed of your diluted urethane and another 30 percent by volume of boiled linseed oil or tung oil. Leave a coat of the resulting slurry on the stock to dry hard over a couple of weeks and wet sand it off again till smooth. This time wipe the residue off the wood. This latter step (allowing the slurry to set up before levelling the surface again) will leave your stock with the pores and grain runs filled. It is now ready for the final coats of finish whether it be more urethane, Tru Oil or what have you. If you like a dead flat finish try and find Schaftol , a German stock finish, like you find on Sauers etc. Alternately you can modify a glossy finish say from urethane or Tru Oil by carefully rubbing down the finish with rottenstone with diluted BLO as a lubricating agent. Use a hard felt pad for the rub down.

The whole object of sealing is to prevent absorption of water from the air or direct exposure. Tung oil and boiled linseed oil used alone are actually hydroscopic and encourage absorption of water into the wood. Not very conducive to stability. The wax one poster referred to is probably the most effective part of his finish.
.

[KCSO]

Old time sealer for walnut...
Thin white glue with water and add flour to make a paste. Rub it into the stock and let dry and then finish sand. A good sealer, but not much good for punky wood.

[PatMarlin]

Alternately you can modify a glossy finish say from urethane or Tru Oil by carefully rubbing down the finish with rottenstone with diluted BLO as a lubricating agent. Use a hard felt pad for the rub down.

I've got a stock that is hideously glossy (Weatherby esq), but looks like a darn good seal job. Also the urethane- (if that's what it is?) I would like to take it down to more of a satin oil look. I was going to strip the stock and start over, but your process may be the ticket.

Can I do this with the method above? What in tarnation is "rottenstone with diluted BLO" and where do I get some?

[stocker]

Pat:
If your Weatherby is a Mark V that finish is tougher to work than getting through the gates of heaven. BLO = boiled linseed oil. Mineral spirits is paint thinner/solvent , also known as Varsol etc. Rottenstone is a very fine ground rock , similar to but much finer than pumice. Available to you from Brownells but any fine paint and varnish supply house may have it. At one time it was available in grocery stores for polishing pots. The hard felt referred to is also available from Brownells in small pieces. I usually buy a whole hard felt buffing wheel for a bench grinder or polisher and cut it up. It's cheaper for me than ordering out of country.

The Weatherby Mark V finish seems like epoxy to me and may respond best to dulling by using a very fine wet or dry sandpaper- try 1500, 2000, and 2500 grit- available from auto body shop supply houses. The finish on Mark V's is thick so you have a bit of room to experiment. Get an art gum eraser and cut a strip of the finest grit paper to fit. Dip it in your diluted BLO and sand with the grain a bit. Wipe the area and check your results. If it's still shinier than you want go to the next coarser grit and work it a bit more. Gentle is the watch word as you don't want to cut through the finish. You might also try a high quality 0000 or 00000 steel wool ( look for the Liberon brand name if it's available) also used with the dilute BLO. I am reluctant to use it on softer finishes as it has the habit of imbedding steel particles in the finish. It might not on the Weatherby. Watch the checkering- you don't want to sand the borders or diamonds. If you prefer you can exclude them with masking tape. I'm not certain if they use the same finish on the Vanguards but think not.

For urethane or oil finishes I prefer rottenstone although the sandpaper will do if you are very careful as the finish buildup is usually much less than the epoxy. Keep the area you are working wet with the oil all the time you are working it.

Urethane- a common brand is MinWax spar urethane based varnish. There are others I don't see here. Get the gloss variety rather than the satin. Satin or semi gloss varnishes usually contain silica to refract rather than reflect direct light. It tends to dull checkering tools because of the silica content.

Best

[PatMarlin]

Thanks for the reply stocker.

It's not a Weatherby, I just meant it was a shinny urethane finish that had that "Weatherby" look.

It's cracked in areas, and I thougt it would be great to be able to take that finish down, to a duller look, and at the same time keep it's seal.

I hate that shiney stuff.

[Char-Gar]

Back in the old days, we would seal the barrel chanel and end grade of factory stocks with several coats of shellac. There are probably much products available today.

When working with new wood or a total refinish, I always use Tru-Oil. It is not the be all and end all of stock finishes, but after 40 years I have it figured out and it hold no suprises. I really goop it on the end grain and barrel channel to get a good seal and proceed to the rest of the stock.

To seal the outside wood, I give it coat after coat, cutting it back to the wood with 000 steel wood every three coats until the grain is fully filled and smooth as glass. I can't abide the orange peel look of wood which has not been fully filled.

Wood stocks and heavy water exposure are really not compatable. But Tru-Oil works just about as good as any to protect a rifle, if the fellow if careful about protecting the rifle as good as he can.

If you really must hunt in a driving rain, get a stainless rifle with some kind of composite stock.

[Char-Gar]

I used Rottenstone for many years but have gone to Brownell's fine stock rubbing compound. It is a a reddish compound and works great. It takes off the high spots and produces a glass smooth finish.

With Tru-Oil you can cut the finish back to the wood with fine steel wood for a satin oil finish look and still have well filled grain and decent protection.

[Char-Gar]

Pat..If you have a plastic finish that is starting to craze (crack) strip the finish off down to the wood and refinish with Tru-Oil or the finish of your choice. There are several commercial stripers available, but I have used EZ-OFF oven cleaner with good result.

Spray the stuff on..let it sit awhile..cut it off with 00 steel wood..use a firm tooth brush on the checkering to get the goop out...wear rubber gloves and clean off the resulting mess with acetone. Use a well soaked rag and the same toothbrush for the checkering. When dry, take a look at it in strong light and repeat if necessary for any spots you missed..there will be some.

Do this outside or in you shop if you don't want a D-Vorce.

[PatMarlin]

That's sounds like the ticket Charles. We've got those ingredients in town!

Also, the wood is stained darker than I would like. Can I lighten it up with steel wool also or?

True Oil-

Is it more of an oil (duh?), than a urethane type deal?

[Char-Gar]

The question is whether the stain in in the finish or in the wood? If it is in the finish the wood will be natural when the finish is removed. If the stain in in the wood, some of it will come out with the acetone rubdown. But to remove it all, you will have to sand the stock and I am not certain you want to do a whole lot of that.

Tru-Oil is an oil with some chemical dryers added to it. It has been around long before there was such a things as Urathane. Lin-Speed is another good finish, but take longer to dry.

The secret is not to get in a hurry. You will end up spending more time to fix you mistakes than you save if you get in a hurry. If you are not a patience person stay away from stock work.

[PatMarlin]

I've been told I have the patience of Jobe..


uh... so where's my 311407?..

[waksupi]

Watco Danish Oil Finish is my favorite on stocks. Used properly, it fills and seals the grain, and makes a nice looking stock.

[sundog]

I've got a CMP 03 that had a pretty bad stock when I received it. It got the EZ-Off Oven Cleaner treatment. Had some punky spots. Used Tru-Oil, mostly because I have for years, and it fine now after many finger applied coats, steel woolings, and more coats. One thing that can break the glare of Tru-oil is Johnson's Paste Wax on 4-ought steel wool after the last last coat is thouroughly dry. Gives it a nice calm luster. sundog

[Frank46]

fourarmed, there is a wood sealer out there that may be what you are looking for. I used it on some kitched cabinet doors. Brush it on then when dry sand the dickens out of it. But I must caution you as its a silica based sealer. The sanding dust comes off as a very fine white powder. So breathing protection is a must. Think either home depot or lowes sells it. I also used the wood restorer you mentioned. Had a bay window in the front of the house that has some water leaking into the frame. I managed to get the wood restorer into where the punky wood was. A couple applications, sealed it and painted it. Ten years later when the house was sold looked as good then as it did when the repairs were made.Frank

[fiberoptik]

And, let's not forget that all this should be done within an area with good ventilation! I have no sense of smell after a karate tournament in Okinawa, but I can say that the fumes from Urathane will make you see pretty colors!

[PatMarlin]

And, let's not forget that all this should be done within an area with good ventilation! I have no sense of smell after a karate tournament in Okinawa, but I can say that the fumes from Urathane will make you see pretty colors!

I do my best work amoungst fumes...

[JSH]

Not to hijack this thread, but pertains to stock work as well.
Any of you fellows have a method to get a milsurp stock back to what would look right? This is an 03 that has no cartouche or markings on it, so I don't feel to bad about cleaning it up a bit.
Jeff

[Blackwater]

Pat, to lighten the color of the wood, you might try mixing quick lime (hydrated lime, probably from your garden shop supply) and acetone. Mix to a pancake batter consistency, and paint on with a brush. Leave it on a couple of hours, and wash off very thoroughly. Repeat until the wood lightens to your liking.

This will also remove oil from oil soaked stocks, but for really severe cases (like one I'm working on now) you may have to thin to a near soupy consistency and soak the oil drenched end in the mix.

BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL WITH THE LIME! IT'S WHAT THEY DISPOSE OF BODIES WITH, AND IT'LL DISPOSE OF YOUR LIFE IF YOU BREATHE IN TOO MUCH OF IT!!!

I'm still alive after using it, though, so it ain't rocket science to use potentially "bad" chemicals and still be able to breathe. I used it to get the oil out of the stock, but it'll lighten the wood as well. Then, to avoid darkening the stock further, use a tung oil based finish instead of a linseed based finish. I've just used Brownell's Custom Oil for the first time, and am very satisfied with it. It has the driers in it, to hasten the setup time, which is nice if you want to use the gun next season and have it really and truly fully finished. One "secret" of using oil finishes, IMO, is TIME. It simply takes time to really do it right, and as many repetitive coatings as it takes to get that glass like surface.

As to roughing up the finish, McGuiar's makes some auto polishes (#7), and rubbing compounds (#4 I think it is, plus others of varying "grit") that may help you get just the right look that you're after. I've used them on guitars, not gun stocks, but using #4 to get the surface truly dead flat, and then buffing out with #7,. and following up with rottenstone for that last dab of "liquid like" finish worked really, really well on the guitar. It was a shiny finish, but looked like it was the wood itself was the finish, and not some thick, gummy finish ON the surface. Good stuff. Just take your time, be patient, and let it take as long as it takes. It really won't take a whole long time, but as with any finish job, the secret's in minding your P's and Q's while you're doing it, and not trying to rush it. If there's any question whether you're "through" with a given stage, that means you need to do a bit more.

A piece of plate glass with stick on felt makes a fine polishing tool to use with the liquid grit finishing stuff like the McGuiar's, and add water to the rottenstone and it works well using the felt faced glass too.

The more I learn about finishing stocks, the more I realize there are an infinite number of ways to go about it, and most give at least acceptable results. I just like the rubbed oil finish. Most folks just never finish the finish, and leave that orange peel look. That may not be "bad," though, if you want a non reflective finish, like say on a duck gun.

Tung oil's supposed to be much better as to water resistance than linseed, but I have gotten wet enough for that to become a consideration very few times in my life, and when the moisture evaporates from the oil finish, it'll go back clear instead of the milkiness that it can cause if gotten TOO wet. Oil's IN the wood, which I think helps a lot.

If that urethane finish on your rifle's cracked or crazed, I'd definitely remove it. May help to soak it in a mix of acetone and laquer thinner after removing the outer finish. Let dry a week or two after a good soaking in the solvent, and you'll probably lighten the color a tad more, also.

Hope some of this helps?