Any S&W Shooters here?

[Char-Gar]

OK, I'll toss in my $0.02. I shot big bore revolvers many years ago, drifted away and then returned a little. Single action revolvers don't do much for me and I'm with 44Man concerning the Bisley grip frame, I never warmed up to the Bisley even a little. I think it comes down to personal preference so if it works for you, great. As for the S&W N-frame, I think it's an excellent design and the newer ones are even better. They now install a hardened cylinder crane, have longer locking notches and several other improvements to increase the life of the gun. I don't abuse guns, so for me, these improvements just make a good gun better.

The OP said he didn't want to hot-rod his loads but then quoted some velocity figures that are very hot in my book. I think he would be well served by reducing those expectations a bit.
That being said, in my experience, S&W and Ruger make excellent guns with a small strength advantage going to the Ruger. That's not remotely saying the S&W's are weak but rather the Rugers are super strong.

Back in my early days I wasn't into casting bullets but I sent a lot of commercial cast & J-word bullets down range. I could never get the 45 Colt to shoot as well as the 44 Special.

A 250gr SWC loaded to achieve 900-1000 fps in a 44 caliber is a VERY useful load and shouldn't be overlooked. I don't know why people are obsessed with the desire to push 44 caliber slugs to 1300+ fps other than to say they can.

Good Luck!

You are of course 100% correct in all you say. However, it seems to be "the thing to do" these days for people to blast high volumes of high pressure, high velocity, big bore handgun rounds down range these days for no real reason.

I don't guess anybody has told them that doing so will do great damage to their hands, wrists and elbows and when they turn 60 the pain will be so bad they will be back to shooting 22s, 38s and 9mms and wishing they had be doing so all along. Just picking up a full mug of coffee will become a challenge of the human will over pain.

The truth is that except for the very few, if any shots, needed to kill big bear, moose or bull elk a 40 caliber or over cast bullets, weighing 200 grains or more, traveling 900 fps will kill everything on the North American continent, within handgun range and providing the shooter can in fact shoot.

Testosterone is a heavy drug for many people and they only learn the consequences of youth when they are too old to reverse course because karma has taken over.

"Some folks learn by watching, some by listening and others by reading, but the rest have to pee on the electric fence."...Will Rogers

[FlatTop45LC]

I am not obsessed with fps.

I do want a 45 lc to run a 255 at 1000 fps.

I like 210s at 1350 or so in the 41.

[captaint]

I got over the "let's see how fast we can make this go" thing when I was still young. Thank goodness. I have the N frame Smiths and love them above all my other revolvers. My 57 is the favorite and it really likes 6.8 grains of Red Dot with Miha's 210 grain HP. With nothing left to prove to myself, enjoyable shooting is my goal. Every now and then I load up some "real" 357's just for fun. I enjoy that too, once in a while. Mike

[FlatTop45LC]

I got over the "let's see how fast we can make this go" thing when I was still young. Thank goodness. I have the N frame Smiths and love them above all my other revolvers. My 57 is the favorite and it really likes 6.8 grains of Red Dot with Miha's 210 grain HP. With nothing left to prove to myself, enjoyable shooting is my goal. Every now and then I load up some "real" 357's just for fun. I enjoy that too, once in a while. Mike

I enjoy shooting lite loads too.

My boss has a M57 6.5" that is absolutely gorgeous.

[Char-Gar]

I am not obsessed with fps.

I do want a 45 lc to run a 255 at 1000 fps.

I like 210s at 1350 or so in the 41.

All we know is what you tell us and this is what you told us; "I like 1000-1200 fps in 45 LC and 1200-1600 in 41 and 44 mags. All with typical bullet weights.".

[FlatTop45LC]

All we know is what you tell us and this is what you told us; "I like 1000-1200 fps in 45 LC and 1200-1600 in 41 and 44 mags. All with typical bullet weights.".

Completely understand. Not trying to contradict info.

I don't want to hot rod all the time, but would like the ability if I decided to.

Maybe my stated top end is a little over zealous.

[Shooter6br]

I have a 657, 25-2 (45acp) 638(38 Special) Mod 10' The 657, 25-2 and Mod 10 are wickedly accurate. For hunting 657 or a nice 629.

[Don Purcell]

Char-Gar, Ever hear of Lee Jurras former owner and operator of Super Vel? He and Kent were close friends for many years and can vouch for what I wrote. John Ross author of Unintended Consequences and high volume shooter new Kent longer than I and can vouch for him. The late Harry Stanford designer and builder of the Automag was working closely with Kent on loads and durability mods for the Automag. Kent and Elmer Keith were close friends for many years and Keith spoke very highly of him. Too bad you never new him you might have learned something.

[FlatTop45LC]

I have a 657, 25-2 (45acp) 638(38 Special) Mod 10' The 657, 25-2 and Mod 10 are wickedly accurate. For hunting 657 or a nice 629.

Good Lord that is gorgeous!

[Char-Gar]

Char-Gar, Ever hear of Lee Jurras former owner and operator of Super Vel? He and Kent were close friends for many years and can vouch for what I wrote. John Ross author of Unintended Consequences and high volume shooter new Kent longer than I and can vouch for him. The late Harry Stanford designer and builder of the Automag was working closely with Kent on loads and durability mods for the Automag. Kent and Elmer Keith were close friends for many years and Keith spoke very highly of him. Too bad you never new him you might have learned something.

I know Lee Jurras quite well. He is dealing with cancer right now at his new home in New Mexico. I am not going to bug him about this as he has a full plate, but will mention it should it seem appropriate. If Lee says it is so, then it is so. I know him, but don't know you.

[Porterhouse]

I believe what Don Purcell said about Kent Lomont. I never had a chance to meet Kent but John Ross told me several stories about him. I don't know or heard about anyone else who tested any given guns to its limit, as hard as Kent did.
Back to S&W revolvers. They do suffer from end shakes and stuff with lots of shooting but I don't call them weak. That's just the nature of design and either you understand it or hate it. For me, I much prefer fine trigger and the convenience of dumping 6 or 5 emptily cases, instead of tedious one at the time single actions.

[9.3X62AL]

I didn't mean to start a pissing contest over revolver strength, but stated my beliefs based upon my experiences with a number of revolvers of various makes. It gives me little comfort to hear assurances from a maker that refuses to service older-series revolvers any longer that their Endurance Package will withstand enhanced pressures, and it similarly gives small comfort to get encouragement to hot-rod revolvers from folks that make their livings repairing the things. Both sources have their skins in different games than the ones I'm in. Short version--most of my N-frames are down the road and replaced by Rugers, a company that will work on their products when needed. The N-frames that remain are older variants that will be used judiciously, recognizing their structural limitations. If S&W wants to act like Colt, they will be treated like Colt--ignored with enthusiasm.

[MtGun44]

Al,

I had hoped that we were having a friendly discussion, if you see it otherwise,
my apology, no pissing intended, sir.

Bill

[sargenv]

My favorite S&W N frame is a 6.5" 610 that I've put about 120,000 rounds through in USPSA and ICORE competition. I opted about 10 years ago to use exclusively 40 S&W brass in it since it was more plentiful and if need be I could use the ammo in other 40 cal firearms. A bit later I also switched up to the RIMZ polymer moon clips. No more issues with bent steel clips in the 610. The next new thing is for the 6.5" - 8 shot 9mm, the 929. Sort of what I'd been hoping for, for a long time competition wise.. Cheap to shoot, moon clipped, and that lovely 6.5" barrel.. Can't wait to try one/buy one if it is in the cards...

[FlatTop45LC]

Ok I think I have reached a conclusion.

I am going to buy a Ruger Blackhawk Hunter to scope - probably a 41 mag. This will be my new dedicated deer rig for treestand hunting.

I am also going to buy a 4" S&W M25 (possibly a mountain gun) in 45 LC to carry when not specifically hunting deer. This gun will not replace my Flat Top but will add a nice DA back in my working gun line up. It will live on a regular diet of 255 - 285 grain lead from 800 - 1050 fps.

Thanks for all the comments!

[Char-Gar]

Ok I think I have reached a conclusion.

I am going to buy a Ruger Blackhawk Hunter to scope - probably a 41 mag. This will be my new dedicated deer rig for treestand hunting.

I am also going to buy a 4" S&W M25 (possibly a mountain gun) in 45 LC to carry when not specifically hunting deer. This gun will not replace my Flat Top but will add a nice DA back in my working gun line up. It will live on a regular diet of 255 - 285 grain lead from 800 - 1050 fps.

Thanks for all the comments!

Sound decisions all around.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, not to be "that guy" and splitting hairs but...... If you're going to go with the 4" S&W N-frame for your DA revolver (an excellent choice by the way), I'd suggest leaning towards the 44 magnum rather than the 45 Colt. The difference in diameter of .02" isn't that big of a deal but the versatility of the 44 mag is far better. With the same bullet weight you end up with a slightly longer bullet which equals greater contact with the bore and slightly better ballistic coefficients and power over a greater range of bullet styles.
Add to that a little more steel in the same exterior sized cylinder and barrel, plus the option of 44 Special and the 44 mag really starts to shine. If you're not going to match your single action revolver cartridge (.41 mag) to your DA revolver choice, you might as well get the best possible chambering in your DA revolver. In my opinion, that choice would be 44 magnum over 45 colt.


I'm sure those comments will open a can of worms but so be it. I've loaded and shot 44 Special and 45 Colt side by side and I would pick the 44 over the 45 every time.

[Char-Gar]

Well, not to be "that guy" and splitting hairs but...... If you're going to go with the 4" S&W N-frame for your DA revolver (an excellent choice by the way), I'd suggest leaning towards the 44 magnum rather than the 45 Colt. The difference in diameter of .02" isn't that big of a deal but the versatility of the 44 mag is far better. With the same bullet weight you end up with a slightly longer bullet which equals greater contact with the bore and slightly better ballistic coefficients and power over a greater range of bullet styles.
Add to that a little more steel in the same exterior sized cylinder and barrel, plus the option of 44 Special and the 44 mag really starts to shine. If you're not going to match your single action revolver cartridge (.41 mag) to your DA revolver choice, you might as well get the best possible chambering in your DA revolver. In my opinion, that choice would be 44 magnum over 45 colt.


I'm sure those comments will open a can of worms but so be it. I've loaded and shot 44 Special and 45 Colt side by side and I would pick the 44 over the 45 every time.

I have loaded and fired both the 44 Mag and 45 Colt for a very long time and like you I would pick the 44 if I could only have one. It will give sterling accuracy from 700 to 1,400 fps and it is easy to find an accurate load. The only thing the 45 Colt has going for it is panache and a long frontier history.

[FlatTop45LC]

I have loaded and fired both the 44 Mag and 45 Colt for a very long time and like you I would pick the 44 if I could only have one. It will give sterling accuracy from 700 to 1,400 fps and it is easy to find an accurate load. The only thing the 45 Colt has going for it is panache and a long frontier history.

I have to be honest when I say I will take either.

I already load for the 45 Colt and like tge cartridge so it seems like a natural choice, but if thr right deal was found on a 29 or 629 I don't think I would pass it up.

[High Desert Hunter]

I chose the 45 Colt Mt Gun in part because I have so many 45 Colts, and in part, because John Linebaugh recommended it, and it is what he carries. If it's good enough for a man who lives in grizzly country, and builds some of the most powerful handguns in the world, it's good enough for me in NM.