Auto conversation for the Star

[chloe123]

Per Boolits members musings, there's an alternative....

...the Mr. Bullet Feeder, right?

Either for automation or this collator, you'd probably want the Magma Bullet Feeder anyway.

It sounded asif this was successfully designed. Though it sounded like the caliber specific parts could end up being pricey, relatively speaking, it's not too bad. The other big makers explicitly state no cast boolits, just jacketed fodder.

I was just thinking how the repetitive stacking and orienting of boolits gets annoying and is time consuming--at least compared to how fast you can pull the handle.

This would be a valuable item for a group buy, imo

[Tazza]

I hope to one day build one, there are videos on youtube about people that have made bullet flippers so they all go down the tubes one way to feed to your sizer or casting machine. They look simple enough, but getting the time to do the job is the issue.

I wonder if they specify jacketed only is because they don't want to have to cater for all different cast projectile shapes and sizes.

[HATCH]

They say no cast boolits because the lube sticks up the machine.

I wish someone sold a bullet flipper.

[chloe123]

Wasn't it JMorris that not just created a collator but had an apparatus that was like a carousel to change the boolit orientation?

Add....I thought it was odd that the RCBS and Hornady feeders aren't designed for collating cast boolits. I felt it was due to eventual lube accumulation as opposed to cast boolit design, bit never really new for sure.

[6bg6ga]

Its very simple to make a bullet flipper. There are video's of them on youtube.

[Tazza]

Ahh the lube issue makes sense.

Jmorris did build one, looked very simple to do as well, but you did mention that you don't have the gear to tackle a lot of things like this, so ti makes it hard and more expensive

[HATCH]

Problem with bullet flippers is getting something that will work with every boolit I cast without making changes for each one.

Basically there is a hole that the boolit drops in that is the exact length is shorter then the boolit you use.
This way the next boolit doesn't jam the flipper.


I did think of a way that might work.
Basically you have a tube that has a switch in it. When a bullet hits the switch a pin blocks the tube so no more bullets can drop.
The tube would be two bullets long so it would still work if two bullets dropped before the blocker could block it.

[jmorris]

These are the two that I have made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eANEMBS_V_0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cc1hUj343w

The collators are from 6" PVC and 1/2" UHMW plastic. Yes, you have to change parts out for different caliber bullets.

This is a video Rick (owner of mrbulletfeeder) sent me of a nose down converted " old style" mr bullet feeder.
http://vid664.photobucket.com/albums...ps7a02454c.mp4

The reason I use the external flipper is because the collators were built for my reloading presses and the bullets need to be base down for them and I am too lazy to build another set for my sizing machines when all I have to do is drill a single hole in a plastic bar to flip them.

The part that inverts the bullet is easy to make, much more time in the collator itself.

[6bg6ga]

Sir, you are by no means lazy. What you are employing is work simplification or working smart. No need to build yet more machines when you can use your head and adapt what you have to work. My hat is off to you sir. I wish I could buy one of your units and I could be assured it would work unlike what is on the market now.

[Tazza]

That is what i want to make too. I already have some 6" PVC that i have cut down and have made bases out of MDF that i have glued into the PVC as a base. I still have to make the rotating disc, not 100% sure how i'm going to do that yet.

I hope to power it with an electric motor from a microwave oven. They are rated to do 5RPM, but if the rotating part has say 20 holes in it, that is 100 projectiles flipped every minute, i believe that is more than enough.

The other issue, is how to mount the motor to drive the disc, so many things that need to be worked out, but i'm sure it can be.

[HATCH]

My Star Sizer is set on a 2 second cycle time.
That is 1800 a hr
I would think a hockey puck with 4 holes in it spinning at 5 RPM would almost do it.
That would be 20 boolits a minute and you could set the sizer on 3 second per boolit.
Also you are not factoring gearing.
You can play around with the diameter of the pulley that is on the hockey puck vs the diameter on the motor shaft.
You can speed up or slow down based on the size ratio.

The problem you will run into is the capacity of the collator. I guess they only hold 200 to 250 boolits depending on weight.
Even at a 3 second cycle time per boolit, you would have to replenish the collator every 10 to 15 minutes.

[Tazza]

That is what i was thinking too, the larger the disc, the more i can flip.

Filling the drum more often isn't a big deal for me, as if it's doing it's thing i can be doing something else close by, a lot like the automated MC.

[HATCH]

But the question would be how fast is your machine running??

If you are going with a electric motor to do the flipping then you would use two small limit switches (micro switches).
One before the flipper and one after.
The one before the flipper is for the collator control. You have it about 3 inches above the flipper.
This will allow boolits to be stacked up waiting to be flipped.
One would be after the flipper.
This is for flipper control. This insures that the flipper is only running when you need boolits.
This prevents it from binding up. Now your gonna ask how could it bind up.
Simple. If the tube under the flipper is full but there is enough space for the boolit to partially drop out of the flipper then it will bind the flipper up when it tries to spin.
On the Star setup, you would use the factory metal tube. Have the limit switch above it then have a inch gap between the switch and the flipper.
You want at least two boolit lengths so you don't bind the flipper (see above explanation)

Just some thoughts...

[Tazza]

All good points.

I was going to make it so there was some room so it didn't bind up as it fills.

My sizing setup currently is a lee classic C i think it is, with a bullet feeder mounted to it, it works pretty well, but i think the design will change to the star style with nose down projectiles and an air cylinder to push them through.

I guess it depends on if i need fully automatic or if i can get by with pulling a handle but having the the projectiles filling a tube automatically.

[jmorris]

I still have to make the rotating disc, not 100% sure how i'm going to do that yet...

The other issue, is how to mount the motor to drive the disc...

I made simple fixtures to make the hole pattern, and mill the slot. The slot could be formed with a saw and belt sander though.



I have used the same concept for "sprockets" too large to turn in my lathe, like the one around the 2:00 mark in this video.
http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums...rterhopper.mp4

I drilled a center hole and rough cut the circle and finished the OD with a wood router and did the same "drill/ index" of the small wheels.

The motor is mounted to the bottom 1/2" plate and the shaft has an 1/8" roll pin in it that engages a slot in the bottom of the "sprocket" looking feed wheel.



You want the "inverter" to be 1:1 with the sizing machine or you will need to add an extra switch to keep them from jamming up.

[jmorris]

They were not my first collators, When I first needed one MA Systems was the only place to get one they cost over $1000 dollars back then and they claimed a fail rate of 1/1000 for "square" bullets like a 230g 45 acp. So I built my own and added a failsafe device that would cull any inverted bullet.



If the bullet was base down it would just drop in and pass by the whisker switch and fall out into the feed tube for the feeder.

If the base was up it would hit the switch and open a trap door, culling the inverted bullet from the wheel. This system did have two different switches, one for the collator and another for the culler.




I don't have any videos of it working with bullets but made one of the same device culling 380 from 9mm by length some years later (never throw anything away, right) so you can see how it works.

http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums...ass/9mm380.mp4

[Tazza]

Very nice and easy way of doing it. The issue is, i would need to some how calculate the spacing of the holes to make the jig. I just know that i'd get to the last one and it would have an odd space.

I do have an indexing head for my mill that i have yet to actually use, it may be time to get it out of the box and cut some "gears".

You don't have issues with the plate slipping off or up over the roll pin? that was my only concern with it was that it would not hold the plate in place. I guess there is no real reason why i can't make more than one so each projectile has it's own collator. I really only cast one size and shape.

The nylon i have i think is 1/2" or close to it, hopefully it will do the job.

[dragon813gt]

Hello!

Look that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Az7...KU3ZkgLgJgrCQw
This system had not seen it until today. I find it interesting.

So for the layman like me what all does this setup entail? And any idea of cost? I'm not afraid to spend money and I like the compactness of this setup over pneumatics. How much of it would have to be made versus bought? No lathe or mills in my shop currently. Thanks for any information.

[Tazza]

I believe people on youtube have made them without a lathe or mill. A lathe and mill just makes things easier and more precise is all.

I too like that setup, very compact.

[jmorris]

... i would need to some how calculate the spacing of the holes to make the jig. I just know that i'd get to the last one and it would have an odd space.

You don't have issues with the plate slipping off or up over the roll pin?

That is just math. Pick the CL diameter X 3.1459/ number of "slots". You can even lay it out with a set of dividers.

I used visegrips or small C clamps to hold the disk to the fixture.