Ammonpulver Project Update

[alexzxz]

Not sure about the policy of reviving old posts, but I just had a thought that may just work for ammonpulver in rifle casings.

I've been working with ammonpulver recently for a 1858 Remington. If you haven't used black-powder revolvers before, they can use premeasured paper cartridges to reload quicker.

These cartridges use perm papers (end papers) that you can purchase $3 for a 1000 from any beauty store. They are extremely thin and strong and also burn almost COMPLETELY, no nitration necessary. They also allow sparks to penetrate quite easily.

Why I think it might work for cartridges:
-Primers/Caps are often overpowered; The blast from primers is overkill in order to maintain reliable ignition so it will penetrate the paper fine and ignite a duplex/catalyzed load. I feel #10 caps are way overpowered as they are and they don't contain their blast nearly as well as centerfire primers.
-Provides a barrier against oxidation from the nitrate; If you corn the ammonpulver and filter out any fine meal dust, no powder should come in contact with cartridge.

It doesn't add much time to the reloading process, you just wrap around a sized dowel, use a glue stick, fold over one end, glue stick and you have a paper cartridge in seconds. Fill it up with powder, and twist the end to seal tight. The only thing I'm not too sure is if the bullet may tear the paper if seated too deeply in. You can probably have a wad to cushion it though.

So the detriments to ammonpulver are mostly resolved:

Hygroscopic- inside a sealed brass cartridge should do fine.
Wisp of smoke - not much of a problem since ammonpulver is almost smokeless, except for charcoal soot.
Hard to ignite - Perotter/Nakka's work on catalysts are very helpful. Salt/Rust are easily accessible catalysts, and duplex loads are always an option.
Grains weakening - According to Perotter/Olin's tests, 10% potassium nitrate mixed in phase stabilizes the "amidpulver" within usable ranges.
Corrosive to gun- ideally this should only be used in a beater gun. Otherwise, hot water easily flushes out any leftover remnants as they are all water soluble. Also, this article on corrosion resisting products is very comprehensive.
Corrosive to cases - Hopefully, this resolves that. However, this will require long term testing. I can't tell if any nitrates will leak through the paper, but I hypothesize this will greatly increase shelf life. If it can last a year or two, that would be enough, since any such ammunition would be long used by then.

[footpetaljones]

One problem I can see is using the papers with small caliber cartridges that require large charges, since the diameter of the paper is limited to the diameter of the neck opening. Depending on the weight of the charge, it might not be an issue, though.

[2TM101]

All this stuff was worked out between the 1880s and 1945, and it is too bad the knowledge was not kept, it being thought back then that there would never be any need to use ammonpulver again.

Ten year old thread, but if any of you are still around:

It is highly corrosive to the gun you fire it in, disintegrates the brass cartrige you load it into, and if exposed to temperatures over 90 degrees crumbles back into dust and will blow your gun up. There is a good reason this stuff was abandoned as soon as real smokeless existed.

[deltaenterprizes]

And another thing is ordering or purchasing ammonium nitrate is a big red flag to the alphabet agencies!

[MUSTANG]

Ammonium Nitrate can be purchased as "Tannerite" at several Sporting Outlet stores. It can be purchased as "Prilled" Ammonium Nitrate at many Garden Centers. Several "Fire Works" chemical houses sell it. All these sources sell in 8 ounce range to a couple of pounds per bag. For making Primers, Fireworks, or AmmonPulver the amounts required are small; but compared to bulk purchases the cost is pricy per pound. Bulk purchases will require commercial justification for material (i.e. Farming, Manufacturing, large scale Nursery Operations, etc.. ).

[firefly1957]

A couple summers ago I tried this but I formed a pellet in a .45 acp case from a mixture of Ammonium Nitrate and Paraffin I had issues with ignition and after firing the cases because a green mess! I did not use booster charge maybe I will revisit it later .... I was using 40% wax by weight !

I also did not use my 1911 but a old 1911 barrel welded into a fixture for testing purposes only .

[dverna]

Learned something new.

[KenH]

Like Don I learned something new today. One of the reasons I enjoy this site so much. Always learning something new and interesting.

[MrWolf]

You folks never cease to amaze me. That is why no matter what, I think we will make it as a country. I pray it is true.

[firefly1957]

^^^ thanks I seriously worry some days ! I would use a like button if e had one....

[hartwickco]

This whole thread made for some seriously interesting Saturday morning reading. I doubt I'd pursue buying a red-flaggy item at a store, but there are frequent farm auctions around me where contents of out buildings, etc., are sold off cheap -- I've seen all manners of materials come up very cheaply, including NH/NO in bulk.

[dtknowles]

This whole thread made for some seriously interesting Saturday morning reading. I doubt I'd pursue buying a red-flaggy item at a store, but there are frequent farm auctions around me where contents of out buildings, etc., are sold off cheap -- I've seen all manners of materials come up very cheaply, including NH/NO in bulk.

Do you mean HNO3 or NH4NO3. I am guessing NH4NO3.

Tim