NEW ! ! T/L Liquid Lube

[arlon]

After reading a bunch I decided that the original Johnson was mostly a mix of naptha and wax. I got the naptha and some paste wax, mixed them just looking at consistency. I ended up with about a 50-50 mix and then mixed that 50-50 with X-lox. The result seems to work really well, seems to dry better than mineral spirits. I've tried it on several bullets and haven't seen any issue with leading. I tried the Lee 158 grain Tumble lube bullet with this mix and it has been great after several hundred 38 spcl loads. It sure is easy to mix up and use. More experimenting needed though. I just like the naptha but I still need to do an exact mix with the mineral spirits and see if I can tell any real difference in the stickiness/drying of the bullets. Might also try some carnuba "insulator wax" and see how it compares to the Johnson's paste wax.

[GhostHawk]

Poppy I would recomend you try 50 bullets first before thickening.

Remember, it should pour like coke.

It is not like using straight alox. You want the thinnest most even coat possible.
Many of us have had our best luck counting drops, and unless you are doing large caliber bullets not a lot of drops. Give them a couple of good swirls, take the lid off, let it breath and evaporate.

Compare with an untreated bullet. Is it starting to look a little fuzzy?

If you can see a tan color your using too much for a single coat IMO.

Give them a second coat, let them dry, look again.

On some batches I can just see a color change after the second coat. After the third you should always be able to see it, but it should be very light.

It really does not take much. But a freshly cast boolit will have a shiny surface, a BLL coated boolit with 2-3 light coats will have a kind of fuzzy look to it and possibly a light golden hue.

Experience will soon show you what you are looking for.

It is not like traditional lube where you need to fill the grooves.

I have considered trying to dip them a single coat, probably bases only. But it seems pretty time intensive compared to counting 12-18 drops onto a batch of 50 bullets and giving them the old swirl. Set in front of a fan for 10 min and repeat.

Last coat I throw mine into a cardboard flat on a piece of computer paper and set them in front of the fan to dry hard.

[35 shooter]

GhostHawk just gave one of the best descriptions of the color change on the boolits from 1 to three coats i've seen.

That's exactly how mine turn out (very very light amberish hue) after 3 coats. It easily carries me to 2600 fps. in my rifles without leading with just heat treated ww alloy.

I usually get by with 4 or 5 drops on the bottom of my bowl, then 4 or 5 more drops on top of the boolits per coating for 50 35 cal. boolits.
This is with the original BLL formula...it just doesn't take much at all.

[Ben]

When done properly, it makes for accurate and super clean shooting.
I shot this yesterday with my new Ruger # 1, 357 Max. When I got home, I pushed 1 clean dry patch through my bore. Spotless ! !

BTW, some of the rounds were in excess of 2,000 fps.

[jmort]

One ragged hole. Clean-up speaks for itself, there was none. Thank you for keeping us in the loop.

[benellinut]

When done properly, it makes for accurate and super clean shooting.
I shot this yesterday with my new Ruger # 1, 357 Max. When I got home, I pushed 1 clean dry patch through my bore. Spotless ! !

BTW, some of the rounds were in excess of 2,000 fps.

Nice group man! Two things I like really tight, groups is one.

[GhostHawk]

That is just plain good shootin there.

[popper]

Kevin C - I tried some BLL (original) on some lee 401 TC regular groove with soft alloy (like really soft), leaded the barrel - big chunks near the muzzle. I had to beagle the mould to get 401 I normally use so it was a 190gr boolit. Stiff load that (IMHO) blows the BLL off. I PCd some and leading went away (PC doesn't get blown off easily). Tried a 185gr with the alloy in 30/30, GCd BLL vs PC. Both worked fine. My normal 30/30 I size 311 but largest expander is a 310. Alloy is so soft that neck tension causes nose to bulge and prevent chambering. Anyway your problem is size, I used hard alloy in 40 with the RCBS expander and 45/45/10, couldn't keep the leading away. Got a friend to make a modded Lyman and no leading. ACWW works fine in 40 top end loads with BLL alone. I'll load the soft stuff on top of some LeverE to see how they do at high pressure. And in the 300BO where I can get higher pressure.
Anyway, this isn't bad for near pure & 15 gr 2400 ~1400 fps?.
Attachment 200342

[Ben]

Fit is KING ! !

[popper]

Yes Ben, fit is king but it is dynamic fit that is king. As Larry G. points out, there is a 0.5-1 thous. layer of 'soft/fluid' lube that gas pressure can 'blow' away. If you fill the LG you have a reservoir of lube so you don't run out of lube, maybe. The alloy I was using above is so soft (PCd) that it left a 0.070 flat side on the boolit when one rolled off my WB to the concrete floor. Yet the annealed Cu GC stopped gas cutting. The 'normal' philosophy here is that soft will 'fill' the bore where 'hard' can't. I disagree. I've been working with alloy from almost pure to >36 BHN PB, TL or coated. Answer is always the same, 'dynamic' fit and/or GC.
Edit: this M MG barrel is tight at the muzzle and chamber ends & has given me fits with leading - gas cuts in the middle with hard alloy,then dumps the stuff at the muzzle. Almost gave up on cast shooting in it. Looks like it needs very soft or very hard alloy.

[poppy42]

Well for what ever reason the batch I made was just way to thin. Could have been, like Ben suggested, the thickness of the ingredients, or the mineral spirits. I made sure it wasn't that green milky garbage they sell, that stuff doesn't even burn if you put a match to it. Anyway my first batch was way to thin. It didn't change the appearance of my bullets at all. In addition it took for ever to dry. When I added more alox, I might have added a little to much. Color was closer to straight alox after 1 coat. But not quite as sticky as straight alox. Fortunately I had a few empty alox bottles so I transferred my mix from one squeeze mustard bottle into a couple small alox bottles. It's just going to take a little playing with it to get the right consistency. I'm close just no cigar quite there yet. When I do get it perfect I'll have enough to last years.
Thanks for all the help/advice guys

[Ben]

Sounds like your " thinner " may be your problem. Got to make some adjustments with that portion of your mix.

I've seen people use lacquer thinner or naphtha as a " thinner " , both dry super quick.

Ben

[poppy42]

Ok guys I've been putting together al the ingredients to make my first batch of bens red and I had my son order me some beeswax from amazon. Do to a little miscommunication he only ordered me 1 pound. My question is does 1pound block of beeswax =24 oz of melted beeswax? Or do I need to get some more. I know 16oz = 1 lb but I also know dry and liquid measure's are not the same and I also that when stuff is heated from a solid to a liquid it expands. I just don't have any experience with beeswax. I've been putting together supplies as funds allow. Hot plate, a pot, pans, and the ingredients. I should have the everything Monday or Tuesday. I'd hate to be ready to make my first batch only to find out I'm 8oz short on beeswax. Kinda like all dressed up with no place to go if you know what I mean. I'm hoping someone who's made bens red before (like maybe Ben himself maybe ha ha )can help me out with an answer. I know it might not seem like a big deal but I've looked locally and the only place I can seem to find it is in a craft store or a health store and they only had cosmetic grade and they wanted almost $20.00 for a pound you can get it on amazon for $9. And some change so if I'm going to need more I would like to get it ordered.
As usual all you folks on this forum are great! Thank you so much for all the great advice

[DerekP Houston]

Ok guys I've been putting together al the ingredients to make my first batch of bens red and I had my son order me some beeswax from amazon. Do to a little miscommunication he only ordered me 1 pound. My question is does 1pound block of beeswax =24 oz of melted beeswax? Or do I need to get some more. I know 16oz = 1 lb but I also know dry and liquid measure's are not the same and I also that when stuff is heated from a solid to a liquid it expands.

My understanding of the recipes was all ingredients by weight. I would get another 8 oz of beeswax. Amazon carried it last time I ordered it, got a lb for ~10 bucks with prime shipping in 2 days. You could also scale back the other ingredients to keep the ratio the same instead of ordering more. Randy rat on here sells it as well, might be able to get some from him in exactly the amount you need.

EDIT: I was wrong! My bad. Thanks Ben for correcting.

[Beagle333]

Poppy42

There are a lot of beekeeping clubs in your state. You might try contacting a couple of them. Especially since you only need a pound or so. Hopefully there's one right in your town.
http://www.virginiabeekeepers.org/lo...cal-groups-map

[gnostic]

I've gone wrong somewhere in the process and I'm getting extreme leading at the muzzle end of the barrel. I'm using Johnson's One Step and LLA, in equal parts. On Lee 120 grain wqww and range scrap bullets. Sized .358 in a CZ75 at 997fps with the listed starting load of Tightgroup.

I ran the same batch of bullets, through my RCBS sizer, with Lyman Super Moly without a trace of leading.

[Ben]

My recipe for Ben's Red was designed around " liquid volume " not powdered or solid materials.

Ben

[poppy42]

My recipe for Ben's Red was designed around " liquid volume " not powdered or solid materials.

Ben

Thanks Ben,
That's what I wanted to know. I just about have all the kinks worked out with your liquid lube and I wanted to try "Bens Red. Right know I only cast for pistol rounds I want to try Bens Red on my Makarov bullets. Hopefully, in the near future, I'll start casting 30.06 bullets. Limited resources. I get what I can when I can. Anyway thanks for the info. I prefer getting the facts straight from the horses mouth, if you know what I mean. I'll be sure and post how things work out

[retread]

Ok guys I've been putting together al the ingredients to make my first batch of bens red and I had my son order me some beeswax from amazon. Do to a little miscommunication he only ordered me 1 pound. My question is does 1pound block of beeswax =24 oz of melted beeswax? Or do I need to get some more. I know 16oz = 1 lb but I also know dry and liquid measure's are not the same and I also that when stuff is heated from a solid to a liquid it expands. I just don't have any experience with beeswax. I've been putting together supplies as funds allow. Hot plate, a pot, pans, and the ingredients. I should have the everything Monday or Tuesday. I'd hate to be ready to make my first batch only to find out I'm 8oz short on beeswax. Kinda like all dressed up with no place to go if you know what I mean. I'm hoping someone who's made bens red before (like maybe Ben himself maybe ha ha )can help me out with an answer. I know it might not seem like a big deal but I've looked locally and the only place I can seem to find it is in a craft store or a health store and they only had cosmetic grade and they wanted almost $20.00 for a pound you can get it on amazon for $9. And some change so if I'm going to need more I would like to get it ordered.
As usual all you folks on this forum are great! Thank you so much for all the great advice

Buy it here on the forum from randyrat. A lot better deal!

[Ben]

Thanks Ben,
That's what I wanted to know. I just about have all the kinks worked out with your liquid lube and I wanted to try "Bens Red. Right know I only cast for pistol rounds I want to try Bens Red on my Makarov bullets. Hopefully, in the near future, I'll start casting 30.06 bullets. Limited resources. I get what I can when I can. Anyway thanks for the info. I prefer getting the facts straight from the horses mouth, if you know what I mean. I'll be sure and post how things work out

I get what I can when I can.

I think we all do that !

Ben