357 mag for deer hunting

[mnewcomb59]

Think about how slow that Rossi twist is. 1 twist in 30 inches. The marlin .357 rifle is 1 in 16. My 9mm M&P has a 10 inch twist.

With using the Lee 125-rf in the fast twist 9, my range scrap alloy begins to strip the riflings around 1050 fps. This leaves leading along the rifling paths. I can take the same 125-rf out of soft range scrap well over 2000 fps in the slow twist Rossi with no leading.

Think about this - to torque the rifling paths as hard the 10 inch twist m&p at 1000 fps, the 30 inch twist Rossi would have to be going 3000 fps - AND the Rossi has 4-5 times the barrel to gently accelerate the bullet. The 158-rf shoots within 3 MOA with softer-than-wheelweights range scrap at 16-17 grains of Lil gun (1.09 or 1.18 CC volume) in my rifle. I did have to fire lap out some machining marks near the muzzle but after 25 or so firelapping shots I can shoot soft lead really fast with this (basically) round ball twist.


The down side is that the Marlin can shoot 220 grain sub sonic, where the Rossi only likes WFN 158s subsonic, not even the longer 158 SWC. The upside to the slow twist is that gas checks aren't a part of your budget. I would love to hear what LArry Gibson has to say about his RPM theory and the DRAMATIC differences in twist between 10" twist 9m and 30" twist 357 rifle and what that means for accuracy and bullet alloy.

[Odinbreaker]

I roll my cast bullets in motor mica after lubing really helps with leading

[725]

I'm with Ben on this one. A PB boolit doesn't need to be driven so fast. If I was prone to try it I would certainly use Ben's red as a boolit lube and maybe his new creation, Ben's LL.

[Orchard6]

Thanks for the input guys, hunting started yesterday and I had a chance to put a medium sized doe in the freezer, which I took! She was about 65 yards out and had just come out of the swamp into a grassy clearing that I overlook. I took aim at the front shoulder and placed my shot, she dropped like a rock and never went anywhere! The shot was a little high and hit the top of the lungs and the spine but I'll take that over a gut shot any day.

Now that I know how effective my load is I have a much higher confidence level and won't hesitate to take a shot on another one! Thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys!

[Orchard6]

Oh, I almost forgot, I did make a last minute tweek on my load. I switched over to a TL 358-158 swc and got the best accuracy with 17 grains of lil gun. It had a little better accuracy than the rf that I first tried.

[izzyjoe]

Good job on the deer, you'll get that load worked out!

[DanWalker]

AWESOME! Congrats!

[Lonegun1894]

That load looks like it just might work, well, maybe. Now you know we won't really know if that load is ok to use til we get a report on how that doe tastes, right? Way to go!

[FergusonTO35]

Good job! Sounds like you can push that boolit pretty hard without a gas check. I might pick up a Rossi one of these days, that slower twist sounds good for stout loads.

[Lonegun1894]

Ferguson,
That slow twist is great, but there comes a point when you just can't drive a bullet fast enough to get it and keep it stable. My 20" .357 keeps 158s stable to 500yds (accuracy was another matter), but a friend of mine gave me a couple dozen 220gr bullets from an unknown mold that I couldn't keep stable to 100 yds. I tried some 180s and they did ok, but had some stability issues at 200 yds. I know most people don't push these rifles that far, but I was wanting to try and find out what the limits were for me and this rifle cause I had this crazy idea as to what if it was the only one, and could I make the .357 work for everything if I had to. Not that I want to or plan to.

[mnewcomb59]

Ferguson,
That slow twist is great, but there comes a point when you just can't drive a bullet fast enough to get it and keep it stable. My 20" .357 keeps 158s stable to 500yds (accuracy was another matter), but a friend of mine gave me a couple dozen 220gr bullets from an unknown mold that I couldn't keep stable to 100 yds. I tried some 180s and they did ok, but had some stability issues at 200 yds. I know most people don't push these rifles that far, but I was wanting to try and find out what the limits were for me and this rifle cause I had this crazy idea as to what if it was the only one, and could I make the .357 work for everything if I had to. Not that I want to or plan to.

Silhouette style 180s don't fly too well because they're longer and skinnier for their weight. The stabilization takes into effect bullet LENGTH as well as weight. The more it looks like a flying soup can, the shorter for its weight it will be. I have had better luck with the beartooth 185 WFN than I did with a longer and skinnier 180.

My most recent idea is to make a "Lever Keith" style boolit mold that is a long nosed RNFP instead of long nosed SWC. Make it 170 grains, with a longer nose (.36" instead of .30") because the Rossi will accept up to 1.66" OAL.

This 170 grain bullet will have a case capacity either the same or slightly more than average 158s, just like the Keith 173.

This means that you could have enough case capacity to use 158 grain data, just like the real Keith. There will be enough case capacity for 2000 fps with Lil Gun, and a short enough bullet that it would stay stable as far as you could shoot it out of the Rossi.

I have mocked it up on Mountain Molds a bunch of times, but never had the funds to go through with it. It would be pretty much the ranchdog design but with a longer, skinnier nose and more case capacity.

[FergusonTO35]

Good idea. My Lee 358-158-RF drops at 162 grains and shoots great. Mebbe I'll just stick with that.

[Tristan]

You might try the 45/45/10 mix of tumble lube, which seems to have helped some folks eliminate (avoid) minor leading at pretty good speed. It's equal parts LLA and Johnson's Paste Wax, + 10% mineral spirits.

Search on lubes subforum for 45/45/10 if your interested in the recipe.

Looking forward to trying that boolit myself in a 357 rifle. I'm going to try 1-1 WW's and Range scrap (that's a bit softer than WW's) plus tin, water quenched. If they come out harder than expected, I may try de-tempering the nose of 10 or so for testing and hunting.

[happie2shoot]

The 357 is a good elk, deer and almost anything gun with the right boolit.

http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/...ith+a+357#p387

I have a friend that owns a ranch here in Idaho and can hunt anything he wants, he use to say that only the big
bores were good, now he likes the 357 for most things except real long shots.

Elk are nothing at 125yds with the 180 wfn at 1850fps and that lee 158rfn is pretty good too.

Two years ago we tested three 357 RBHs with 6.5'' barrels at 200yds, 187 FN from a LBT mold, at 1500fps,
all three guns shot 6'' or less.

[FergusonTO35]

What sort of rifle or carbine does your friend use? Got any pet loads for the 358-158-RF?

[Lefty Red]

What sort of rifle or carbine does your friend use? Got any pet loads for the 358-158-RF?

My Henry likes that bullet over 4grs of Trail Boss all the way out to 100 hundred yards. Not too fast, but tight groups and almost the same POA/POI as my XTP hunting load.

Jerry

[happie2shoot]

We have 20'' Rossi 357, I don't know the load he used on the deer but
the 158 rf was going 1750 fps and the deer he shot with it was 125yds.

The elk was 198yds and the 190gr rf was going 2200fps from a 35rem
marlin.

The rossi has no problem shooting the 190gr at 1850 with h-110 or lil gun.

Buffalo Bore uses lil gun in their 180cast 357.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=100

If you ever wonder what the factories, use this forum is great info.
I have to say this, start low and work up.
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-ammo-pull-downs/

The best boolit I use in the 357 is a 187gr fngc from Veral Smith of L B T,
the OAL is longer with mine than the BB 180 and the meplat on mine is
bigger, .280''.

For the hot loads I mostly use h-108 but h-110 or lil gun will be as good
or better.

[Motor]

I was planning to use my 1894C with 158 JSP's as I don't have time to work out a cast load for this season. Would the above apply to a non HP bullet? Just want to do it the right way. Thanks.

The SP would be a better choice than the HP. A 170gr SP would even be better. Most .357 JHPs are designed to expand on humans and do not do well on deer as they tend to over expand and not penetrate.

If I was going to load a JHP in .357 for deer it would be a 180gr Hornady. It should do very well from a rifle.

I know this thread is a couple weeks old. Nice work OP !!! The hard cast .358 sounded good to me.