How about with GC and without. 2 MOA or better. No PP right now. No real reason, just curious.
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How about with GC and without. 2 MOA or better. No PP right now. No real reason, just curious.
Check out the XCB threads in special projects and in the main cast boolit section.
2750FPS with a standard cast lead, grease groove Boolit, is the best I have seen documented up to this point. Rifle used was a 308 Winchester with a 14 twist barrel.
That's over a chronograph with ten shot groups.
The XCB projects are being tested with your exact requirements (2" or less with linear dispersion) and have been very educational so far.
Last edited by MBTcustom; 11-06-2014 at 05:37 PM.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
Flat shooting implies an interest in hunting. I'm running 210 grain 358 Winchester and 270 grain 9.3x74R gas check bullets at 2100 fps. That gets me an easy 200 yard point blank range (2.5 inches high at 100 yards, less than 4 inches low at 200), which is farther than I wish to shoot a game animal.
I hear ya. The problem for me is that I can make a CB cartridge that works good at 200yards with flat(ish) trajectory, but will explode deer at closer ranges (see my sig line) and I can make ammo that will drop deer in their tracks but it falls like a rock. Cast Boolits need to be going a certain speed in order to not splatter a deer when they hit, and that hinders the speed you can shoot.
Jacketed is too blamed hard for its own good, so you have to shoot it fast anyway just to get it to do what a boolit does naturally without any help. This is a hinderance unless you want (like the military does) to have semi effective results over a very broad range.
At the end of the day, Cast lead is for discerning hunters who know how to put their game animals in their effective window of operations. Most cast hunters enjoy making clean kills at close range, and do not use long range capability as a crutch to supliment their lacking woodsmanship skills.
I was in that camp a few years ago. I figured I didn't need to know how to hunt because I was a pretty darn good shot.
Thing is, I have found that hunting is far more enjoyable using enough to get the job done at 50 yards and getting the deer closer than that when I take a level precise shot with cast lead.
After chasing this goat all over Knob Hill only to find it back in it's pen, I have concluded that if I ever want to take a long shot again, I will use jacketed bullets in a rifle built for that purpose. That said, I cant imagine ever doing that again. I take no pleasure in knocking a critter over at 300+ yards. I've done that, and found it had very little satisfaction to offer me.
In contrast, last year I shot a deer at about 15 yards and enjoyed it very much. (matter of fact, at this time Saturday, I will be hunting in the exact same spot).
I guess I've just changed my thinking for the better for me. You might have a difference of opinion, but I can tell you that if you want to shoot deer at long ranges, with low trajectory, jacketed is a much easier solution.
Last edited by MBTcustom; 11-06-2014 at 05:33 PM.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
15 yards is kind of a long shot....for me.
I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.
Baby steps man. I gotta take baby steps. I think I'm still fighting my long distance addiction.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
Absolutely. I take no pleasure in shooting game animals at long range. One of the most impressive accounts I've ever read was when John Taylor said it was a waste to give a fine rifle to an African tracker. The fellow is going to touch the muzzle to his animal before he pulls the trigger, and has no need for a "sporting" rifle, nor sights of any kind. This is my aspiration.
I've shot nice bucks at distances from five yards to five hundred yards. Only difference is the so called "bragging rights" the long shot provides. I'm a meat hunter and forgo the show off shots now.
Marty-hiding out in the hills.
I think a lot like Goodsteel. I have rifles that I doubt I will ever cast for, just because you can't take advantage of the calibers potential with cast, luckily I tend to like the 45/70 which a guy can get pretty much full potential with cast, 338 mag, not so much.
The 10 shots went into 1.65".Originally Posted by goodsteel
Larry Gibson
How about shooting a Red Squirrel at 300 yds with a cast boolit? Yes, I'm a troublemaker.
How about shooting a Red Squirrel at 300 yds with a cast boolit? Yes, I'm a troublemaker.
Ah, heck. Noone would believe it anyway, so what does it matter.
Well, I sure believe you since I shoot cast with revolvers to 500 meters.
Been through the long range varmint hunting, longest crow was 410 yards and many woodchucks over 600 yards, jacketed of course. In all those years it was still more fun to shoot a few young chucks for the camp pot with arrows or a C&B revolver.
I still consider deer hunting as extended archery ranges and a big doe at under 20 yards is one darn hard animal to fool, she will hear your arm move in a sleeve. It didn't take long to go 100% to revolvers, lost interest in a rifle.
Hunting/shooting skill aside, the biggest problem I have found with shooting deer at long ranges is this strange coincedence:
When ever you see a deer a long ways off, and the wind is just right, and you know you can make the shot etc etc etc, for some strange reason the deer is always the opposite direction from camp which means you walked 500 yards to shoot a deer that is 500 yards away, which means by taking the shot, you now have a 1000+ yard drag over rough terrain in order to get back to camp.
However, I think I have a solution! Next time I feel like a long shot, I will set up five hundred yards from camp, and only shoot deer that that are between me and camp. If I'm lucky, I can shoot one off the bag of corn laying next to the camp fire without putting a hole in my radiator. Of course, then that begs the question: why didn't I just stay in camp and save myself the long walk? LOL!
I got a funny story to tell you. First year I was married, I brought my wife to deercamp with me (there were a few other girls there too). Anyway, I got up at 0 dark 30 grabbed my gear, and everybody headed for the deer woods except Angie. About sunup, we're all scattered around over 100 acres freezing our butts off in our tree stands, and I get a phone call from Angie.
(whispering)
Hey baby, you cant call me while I'm deer hunting! You're going to make me scare all the deer away!
What? I can barely hear you. Talk louder please.
What!
There's deer in camp!!!!
Well shoot one!
You're still in bed? no gun.
grrrr.
What are the deer doing?
They're walking through camp?
Big ones huh.
No, don't be scared, they wont hurt you. Just make some noise and they'll take a hike.
Seriously punkin, next time I'm leaving a rifle in the truck with you (we had one of those truck tents that acts like a camper shell).
So, the upshot of it was that about 6 or 7 people left camp to boldly enter the deer's environment all sneaky and stuff, and the deer did the same thing. LOL!
Angie was the only person to see deer that morning. LOL!
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
When we start discussing flattening the shots of bullets (whether cast or jacketed) than review of the ballistic coefficients of the bullets/boolits at various speeds need to be brought into the discussion.
Lyman placed a series of articles on ballistics, hunting performance and ballistic tables for their popular bullet designs in the back of their Cast Bullet Handbook (2nd Edition) for reloader/casters to be able have the drift/drop math done for them at various speeds. The article in that edition that was written by W.T. McDonald and T.C. Almgren is very informative for reloaders who decide to come to the cast side. They even provided a table reflecting that high velocity with cast bullets sometimes was not the best recipe for attaining a high ballistic coefficient especially in the shooting of long for caliber bullets such as the Lyman 287308 (162gr) and 311299 (200gr) which actually sees them gaining in B.C. as the bullet slows down which is an indicator of the classic "Going to sleep" that shooters ascribe to the great long-range performance of some bullets.
I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club
Not red squirrels but rock chucks and ground squirrels at 300 yds isn't much of a problem with the 308 using a 165 gr boolit at 2400 fps
a deer would be doable at that distance too
you just have to learn the trajectory over the distances you want to shoot
2400 is still quite a drop at 300 yds from a 100 yd zero you need to get up to 2600 fps to flatten
things out
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