Point me in the right direction: Pan Lubing

[zubrato]

Hello, everyone! Sorry for the *** question :/
I'm reading through the stickies, LASC, and Castpics but I don't know which lube will suit my specific needs just by looking at ingredients. Trying to pick characteristics out of recipes, but it's going really slow with so many lubes out there.
I'm currently TL'ing the Lee 324-175-1R twice generously. I haven't shot it yet, but I already have an issue..
After forming my own 8x57 brass from 30-06/270 & annealing every case, opening up my sizing die for hours, weighing and culling my boolits meticulously, several days of research for load data in old and new manuals.. tumble lubing leaves my boolits looking...ugly
I envy you guys with lubrisizers, colorful lubes in perfectly filled lube grooves!

Could you guys point me in the right direction? I'm looking for in a good boolit pan lube that meets these criteria. If some of these are asking too much of the lube, let me know!
1. Good for 1600-2200 fps. I'm looking for ~2k but the accuracy of my load development will dictate FPS. I do not have a chrono, I will be simply assuming using load manuals, and estimate velocity.
2. Uses commonly available ingredients. I know Beeswax is great, but I'd like to avoid ordering more stuff from the net, I've already splurged so much on dies, lead, and gas checks.. If I have to, I will buy the Beeswax for sure. But I'm hoping I could "one stop shop" if I need an ingredient, without waiting for shipping.
3. Lube should be soft enough to push through the lube cake, but hard enough to store my lubed boolits in a plastic jar without cracking the lube grooves and falling out or survive on cartridges with one or two lube grooves exposed above the case mouth
4. I'd like to throw a crayon or two in there for a nice red or blue color, seeing how much work we all put into the casting process it's just rewarding to have a product that LOOKS as good as it shoots!
5. A lube that is relatively non-labor intensive/messy. I'm a volume loader, and I'll probably do anywhere from 100-300 at a time for storage. Life fills in my other free time quickly, so I need to make use of what time I get for casting/loading.
I plan to use several pans for the sake of efficiency, and a homemade kake cutter

I'm still reading, and learning. This is my first venture to pan lubing, as I predominantly TL pistol boolits, and I'm OK with the look of light 45/45/10 lubing for how much I shoot and how much time I've saved. But man, I'm jelly of you guys with beautiful boolits!

Thank you for your time and expertise in the matter! One can go crazy trying to fit the knowledge of posters in their respective forums into one brain, and I appreciate having a community like yourselves with so much knowledge and experience!

PS: I've read 45/45/10 has reached velocities of ~2000 FPS without leading, however I'll be shooting from a 23" barrel. I know I'm the one who can really know what works in my rifle, with my boolits and lube, but what kind of limitations am I looking at in terms of bbl length and FPS?

[Beagle333]

I don't know if you can make any as cheap as you can by TACX from RandyRat, and I do like the color.
These were pan lubed.


If it's red you want, either Carnauba Red or BAC from Lars is a nice red, but again... I don't know the ingredients for making it at home. It's not expensive though, especially in the quantities that you are talking about.
I don't use any blue lubes to show ya.

[zubrato]

Beautiful pictures!

I appreciate the input, but I feel like if I'm putting in the work to pan lube, I'd feel a certain sense of pride making my own.
It's part of the fun knowing I had to make my own cases, modify a sizing die, possibly modify my mould, and make my own lube.
I can cheat on the gas checks, for now though :P

man those boolits are beautiful, I bet you're proud!
*jealousy intensifies*

[kungfustyle]

+1 for Randy Rats Lube, Ben's red is a great do it your selfer. I like to "dip" lube and use the push through Lee sizing die. Got the dip lube idea also from Randy Rat. He also had Beeswax for a great price too. Darris Lube is a mix of Paraffin wax Vaseline and stp oil treatment(very messy but works great for the range you are looking at).
Get a pair of hemostats from harbor freight and dip the boolits into the melted lube. Set them out on a pan to set, a bit messy but works great. Just remember to wipe off the basses of the boolits as you load them. I didn't have very good luck w/ just alox with my Mauser but right on with the other lubes.

Careful on the neck on your converted brass if its hard to chamber you may have to get a neck turner, that's what I had to do for my Mauser sized to .325 w/ converted brass.
Lube recipes: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-Lube-recipes

By the way a Lyman isn't all its cracked up to be. Yes, I bought one from a member here, however, there is nothing more fun than to spend three hours casting boolits and then size/lube/gc them only to find out a new thing that your rifle boolits bend...... I didn't know that you need to let the boolits cure for two weeks before sizing them......this is a non issue with push through...

[fryboy]

the experience shows in his fotos eh ? jealousy not needed just experience and ... the only way to get that is practical application , 'tis true tidbits can help with some amount towards success but ...

if you're thinking that your TL'd boolits are ugly then i believe that you're using too much , several things come into play here , mostly "less is more" with LLA , if you can see 1 coat then it's applied too heavy , i suggest thinning it down with real mineral spirits ( not the pseudo called eco friendly stuff ) also helps is warming both the LLA and the projectiles , the "two coats- 1 before sizing,1 after " works decent for mid to light load ranges but for higher i use 3 ( and 45/45/10 will carry a lil 225-415 down my 28" .223 encore barrel just fine erm at least to 2,200 fps as that's as far as i have pushed it so far )
pan lubing is umm not for everyone and a bit more labor intensive but easy enough to do when you gain some experience , the best thing that helped me was the goatlips pan lubing pages ( i'll see if i can find and share the link ) of note the harder and softest lubes offer the most challenge in doing so but by fiddling with the heat to find the "sweet spot" for a particular lube usually pays off
lithi-bee is easy enough to make and use altho you may have to adjust it a bit for your personal climate and desired pan usage ,those whom cut out the boolits from the cake possibly prefer it on the softer side , those whom "whack it crack it" possibly prefer a medium firm but temp offers a bit of latitude in either ,either way or no matter which lube used proper fit of the boolit is a bit more important than actual lube used

http://goatlips.hrillc.com/goatlipst...panlubing.html

easy enough lubes to make and use with pan lubing ?
saeco green
lithi-bee
felix or fwwfl/fwfl
speed green

all the above should meet your requirements but if you're really looking for speed i suggest saving for a star lubesizer [shrugz]

[GhostHawk]

I'd also recommend Ben's Red, it has been good for me.

Like Kung fu style I dip lube, then run them through the lee sizer again to remove excess lube.

I think bigger boolits perhaps work better for pan lubing. I know I struggled with it with the .30 caliber .312 guys I was casting for my Mosin's.

[zubrato]

I've been doing a little research on the Barry Darr's lube, and for me right now it seems to be the ticket.
However, I'd like to modify it a bit further. I've read members will add a small amount of shredded ivory soap, but I'm wondering if I could add some carnauba mixed in.
Thought about throwing in a 5$ stick of lyman "orange magic" to harden it up as well, and maybe give it something extra to help fill in grease grooves.
good idea or bad?

[zubrato]

Also: I have a few of the laughing cow red wax/carnauba rinds and I hear adding these helps stiffen up the wax for pan lubing

[zubrato]

Ok! Made my own Barry Dars lube hodgepodge.
Used 8oz Vaseline, 9-10 oz paraffin wax from cheapo candles I use to flux the pot, 2tablespoons of stp oil treatment, some cheap hotel soap shredded in, about a teaspoon, and one or two red rinds from the cheese wax. One blue crayon for color.

I'm using a cake cutter I made from a cut down and drilled out 223 case, screw and a nail.

Lube stays in the grooves beautifully! It's a tiny bit tacky, but seems ok.

The real test will be in a week or so when I shoot the dang things up to 2k fps.

Any tips for max velocity with Barry Dars lube on a gas checked boolit?

[cajun shooter]

You can over do the science and go too far or add ingredients that really don't work together. If you are shooting with smokeless powder the a simple mix of just two items will give you a great lube. If you are going to shoot any BP then the addition of Lanolin will reap you great rewards.
We have a forum member who can make the best lube cutters that you will ever use, I can't find my darn pics. Later David

[Beagle333]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-Cake-Cutters

Buckshot makes some beauties! PM him for details.

[gwpercle]

Start saving you're nickles and dimes and just buy a lubri-sizer. Pan lubing is a pain in the keester .
Lubi-sizer: Set boolit in die, pull handle down, tweek lube feed, push handle up...TA-DAH. Boolit is sized , lubed, and gas check is crimped on (if necessary) . No muss, no fuss, clean good looking boolits and fast!
Lubri-sizer was the best money I ever spent. I tried the pan lube methods until I said enough is enough, there has to be a better way, and bought a Lyman model 450........Love It!
Gary

[gwpercle]

If you want a simple lube that works, I started using this in 1978 and am still using it:
3 parts beeswax
1 part Lithium Grease ( I use Lucas Red-N-Tacky)

[glockky]

I personally do not pan lube but I am pretty sure many use bens red as a pan lube

[jmort]

For sure, if you are intent on making your own, I would use Ben's Red. But at the intended velocities, Ben's Liquid Lube makes sense.

[Dan4570]

Hi,

ALL I do is pan lube ! I even make and sell pan lube,

1. get lube (I am all about mine)
2. get a pan (I use a wallmart pie pan)
3. set the bullets in the pan while your melting your lube.
4. poor lube in pan to a level that covers the top lube groove.
5. let it set until it starts setting up all over the top., than put in the refridgerator untill it finishes setting up.
6. dump it out in one chunk, (simply done by holding your hand on it, and allowing the entire thing to come out.
7. push bullets from the nose and they will fall out.
8. Size your bullets. I love my Lee bottom punch bullet sizer, to size them on, you don't mess up the nose, and it seems way faster. by the way it is a die and a punch that goes in your press, you can pick one up for about $20 bucks and it comes with a bottle of Lee Alox tumble lube (quite the buy verses a lubrisizer at $150-200 bucks + the nose punches and all the parts to make it work) you do need to pre lube the bullet for these.

Repeat the above process untill you have lubed all the bullets on hand, then either load some or cast some more (I like to lube a batch, set up for the next batch, and while the lube is cooling on batch 2, I like to size the first bunch. makes it feel like it is going faster)

[Dale53]

zubrato;
This is a rather old thread but here is my solution for pan lubing:
http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/th...-piece-of-cake

The lube discussed works beautifully for Black Powder Cartridge Rifle and Pistol and works well for smokeless, also. It will also work well through a lube/sizer and heat isn't needed.

FWIW
Dale53

[Toymaker]

I did my first experimenting with pan lubing last week. Tested were Ben's Red, SPG and Darr's with a little extra bees wax. A cake pan over a pot of boiling water served as a double boiler. I melted the lube and then put the bullets in. when finished I needed a little more lube to cover the lube grooves. If I let the bullets sit in the lube over the boiling water for about 5 minutes the bullets warmed up, air pockets in the grooves disappeared and the lube stuck in the grooves very nicely. The heat was turned off (gas) and everything sat until the lube started to solidify, then it was removed from on top of the water and set aside to cool and solidify at room temperature. Once it was cool a push on the nose popped the bullet out of the lube cake. They were beautifully lubricated, BETTER than I do in my lubrisizer or by hand. I may be a pan lube convert.