What is the obsession with FPS?

[GoodOlBoy]

I have seen so many posts both here and a few other boards I visit lately where folks are either trying to figure what the FPS on a load would be at max load +-, or trying to figure out what their longer or shorter barrel will be vs published data and I am more confused by the minute. When I reload, I am always looking for the most accurate load within my accuracy parameters. I could care less if my load matches published data, beats it, falls short, or anywhere in between so long as it is safe and accurate. I have been reloading for a few short years. No more than a decade or so really. I still don't own a Chronograph, and probably won't EVER own one. My point is why is everybody obsessed with FPS? That's like being obsessed with the RPMs of your tires on your car IMHO. My firearms don't have a "requires XXXX FPS for accuracy!" stamped anywhere on them.

Oh I know people have argued that a load with a extreme spread of single digit is more accurate than a load of double or triple digit spread. My argument is I can either test the load and see how Me, my firearm, and it group together; or I can't. If I have a load that groups a cloverleaf for me at X range. Then I am good to go. I don't care if the spread is 1 or 100 fps. I also don't care about trying to squeeze a few more fps out of a load. I have never seen a max load that was the most accurate load for a given cartridge rifle combination, so why would I want to try to get there? I see so many people who worry wort themselves to death over a heavier faster load. For instance would be a 45-70 405 grain load. If I am shooting one that is accurate, and the recoil doesn't kill me why would I want or need to go to 550+ grains and X velocity? A 45-70 405gr black powder load will kill ANY animal on the North American Continent, including elk, bear, and rabid log trucks! And I don't even have a good recipe for rabid log truck!

Don't get me wrong. If punishing yourself with recoil is your favorite gig then by all means do so safely. I just for one don't get the obsession.

GoodOlBoy

[tazman]

I am not casting for rifle(yet) but the same attitude applies to pistol. I start with light charges and work my way up to an accurate load and then stop. Pushing it faster doesn't do anything for me.
I do like to chronograph my loads to see what they are doing in case I need to change powders. I can match velocities and hopefully have the same impact point and accuracy.
That said, the chronograph is an important tool for load development, particularly when you don't have pressure testing tools. Also, many shoot in competitions requiring a certain power level, so they have to know what their loads are doing.
For the rifle, the faster it goes accurately, the easier it is to hit your target at long range. If the extra speed destroys your accuracy, all you have generated is a fast miss.

[GoodOlBoy]

Now there you hit upon something I probably should have thought of Tazman. I do know that some competitions, like cowboy action, require a max FPS of no more than X. In that case I can see the reason for it.

GoodOlBoy

[Pb2au]

Like many things in life, people do different things for different reasons. For example, there is a cadre of folks here currently pushing the envelope in terms of personal goals in accuracy in what is described as high velocity.
Why would they do it, when you can get terrific accuracy at lower velocities? To be honest, I believe it may fall into the category of the journey being as important, or more so, than the destination.
What those gentleman get out of the journey is an encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting. Those types of personalities are the same ones that say might push a car to higher speed, or build a bow, THEN learn to shoot it well. It is a hunger of knowledge.

[GhostHawk]

A lot of people do chase speed though.

When doing it with cast it is my experience that dropping the speed a third and raising the bullet weight a third leaves downrange energy close to original but it does it at lower speed. Easier to find a alloy, boolit, lube that works.

Generally speaking I think fast is easier for the shooter. Animal being shot at is less likely to be able to out jump the shot.
I think it is harder on equipment though, especially those cast boolits. Slow it down a bit, keep the accuracy up, keep the momentum up, make up the rest with old age and treachery. But your mileage may vary.

[Petrol & Powder]

I was about to say the same thing but Tazman beat me to it.
FPS is a factor in in external ballistics (trajectory) but you run into the law of diminishing returns. When we're talking about rifles, increased velocity (to a point) makes range estimation errors less critical. But there is a practical limit to that effect. I totally agree that some folks are obsessed with velocity. I work with a guy that practically prays at the alter of speed. There comes a point where the gains of a flatter trajectory are overcome by the increased pressure/recoil/wear/etc. If you're good at range estimation and the bullet has enough energy when it arrives to get the job done....who cares if you lobbed that round to the target like a mortar shot?
For handguns the obsession with velocity seems to be more about terminal ballistics than trajectory. Seeking an extra 7 FPS out of a handgun projectile is where things get really silly. There is a clear practical limit to handgun effectiveness. At some point you have to accept that the answer is not 7 more FPS; the answer is "GET A LONG GUN"!
I'm with you GoodOlBoy, the quest for just a little bit more speed becomes counterproductive in short order.

[GoodOlBoy]

Pb2au I have always had a hunger for knowledge. It's why I am considered a "jack or all trades" by some and a "know it all" by others. I don't know it all of course, but when you can have a good conversation on almost any topic some folks get almost irrationally irritated by it. I have built bows, I have driven cars too fast when I was too young to know better, I just can't see the max FPS crowd in that light. I guess I can see how somebody might be retentive enough to want to know what every bullet is traveling, but that still doesn't necessarily equal accuracy. And as for max FPS crowd... I constantly see posts (again not always on cast boolits) about how they exceeded max speed or max load by X or Y. Shortly thereafter I usually see posts with blown guns, and damaged flesh. That is no more a quest for knowledge than a guy redlining a car engine until it blows because he thinks its "cool". And 9 times out of 10 after the gun and load are redlined to detonation I see a "X caliber is weak" or "X brand is horrible" argument by the very same folks.

Gunshots at ranges and accuracy considered mythical were made by men without a working encyclopedic knowledge of the higher mechanics of cast boolit shooting.

GoodOlBoy

[GoodOlBoy]

Petrol let me tell you I have "lobbed" a few in my short time

I think part of where my frustration with the FPS crowd comes in is not just in firearms. You can't even have a decent discussion on a archery board these days without the FPS'ers jumping in and wanting you to chrono a bow!

Some very valid points in the discussions so far! Thanks guys! Everybody chime in, I am always interested in any good discussion.

GoodOlBoy

[btroj]

There are places where fps matters.

Long range target shooters want as much speed as possible to reduce wind deflection. Accuracy matters but wind drift will affect end accuracy.

With cast the entire 30XCB concept was to push the envelope with cast bullets regarding speed. Sort of a "what can we do" thing. We are looking to see what it takes to get good accuracy at the top possible velocity.

For most loading I wouldn't be without a chronograph. It told me my 44 mag loads were not getting anywhere near the book velocity, I did some searching and found I have huge cylinder throats. With knowing your velocity how does a varmint shooter really know his trajectory tables are correct?

I am not a promoter of redlining anything. I don't think trying to squeeze another 50 fps is worth an overload but there are times where another 300 fps matters.

In the end it is up to each of us to decide what we want from our shooting.

[GoodOlBoy]

Very true btroj, and your final statement was well said.

I knew something was up with my blackhawk in 45lc when EVERY fifth round was completely out of group. I know I can sometimes pull the trigger, I know I can sometimes push it. But even without a chrono I knew something was up. turned out ONE cylinder throat was cut WAY under spec (ever tried squeezin a .454 sized 250 grain rnfp through a .449 sized throat? I have.) Cylinder got reamed, problem solved.

As for varmint shooting I didn't know we were supposed to be using tables. I have shot varmints at very long ranges with a remmy 700 VTR 223. I know where the point of impact is because I shoot my gun. Couldn't even begin to tell you what my velocities are, but then again I don't reload 223 yet I just use factory ammo. (Speaking of which why o WHY did Wagner Accuswag have to stop loading 62 grain match hps for the 223!)

GoodOlBoy

[Petrol & Powder]

I had access to a chronograph for several years and learned a lot from that tool. One of the things I learned is that speed isn't everything.

Pb2Au -For some people the journey is important. They are intelligent folks that have a thirst for knowledge. I also believe those are not the people that GoodOlBoy is referring to.

btroj - I totally agree that velocity plays an important role in exterior ballistics. When a projectile leaves the barrel it is acted upon by forces, including gravity and wind. The shorter the time that the bullet is in flight from the barrel to the target, the less time those forces will have to act upon that bullet. The only two ways to reduce that time in flight is to reduce the distance to the target or make the bullet go faster. However, there's a practical limit to the gains achieved by increasing velocity. At some point the gains of increased velocity are outweighed by other factors.

I see a lot of people that are obsessed with velocity and I think those are the folks that GoodOlBoy is talking about. Speed is everything to them but they don't know why.

[GoodOlBoy]

Exactly, Petrol said it much better than I have done so far.

GoodOlBoy

[jlchucker]

My sentiments exactly, GoodolBoy. That's how I've always done it. Never had a chrony, and I use published loading data to work up my loads until they get me good groups. I write down every load I try, gun by gun, in a spiral ring notebook. Then I stick with the most accurate load, gun by gun, for everything I shoot out of that gun. I've chrony'd a couple of my loads a couple of times at my gun store's private range, but only because some of the guys that hang out there were chrony-ing their stuff that particular day and wanted to check out mine. It was a pleasant Saturday, so what the heck. I never even bothered to write what came out of the chrony down. I don't feel undergunned with any of my stuff.

[Doc Highwall]

I shoot long range with a 308 Winchester cartridge in my Palma gun with 155 grain bullets, and the velocity needs to be high enough to stay supersonic at 1000 yards. The only way to know this is with a chronograph.

Low extreme spreads of muzzle velocity do not equate to small groups as barrel vibrations are not taken into account, but low extreme spreads reduce vertical spread at long range.

A chronograph is a tool and knowing how to utilize the data that is gathered from it is more important.

[Garyshome]

It is just one of the only reloading tools available, thats all! May not mean much to some but it is important to me!

[Love Life]

The number one answer to the OP is because they can.The more real answer for my purposes is because speed and low ES and SD give me the results I need at range. However, my most accurate long range load for one bullet was not the max load, but the most accurate long range load for another bullet was .2 gr above the max book charge.

[country gent]

I have had a chronograph and used it, not to find top velocity the tatget and load testing finds the best loads for my rifle. I chronograph the best loads so I have the velocity to plug into my ballistics program. With velocity bullet bc and information I can get "Come Ups" out as far as I need for the load and more important I can make wind charts up for the actual load out to whatever range neded. Since my home range only goes to 200 yds the generated zeros for 300, 600, 800, 900, and 1000 yds is a big plus. Another plus is I can use this information and programs to adjust for sea level and ambient condition diffrences on diffrent ranges when traveling to diffrent matches. Its simply another tool to be used. Testing gets more effient with the amount of information data that is available

[dtknowles]

What is the point of owning a .357 Max if you only shoot .357 mag velocities or a .357 mag if you only shoot .38 special velocities. It does go to trajectory and stopping power. FPS matters.

Tim

[GoodOlBoy]

ok FPS matters to some. But if I am loading 357 mag rounds (the last example given as I type this) using 357 data, and I DON'T know the FPS it is actually performing at how does that automatically mean I am shooting at 38 velocities?

GoodOlBoy

[mrbill2]

When I shot NRA pistol silhouette matches I would sometimes get lucky enough to shoot along side the guy that shot his 44 mag. This thing roared and spit fire and lead like an cannon. The targets would seem to fly to the next county. When I ask why, his answer was I LOVE THE RECOIL.
O I shot those same targets and more of them with my 270 Ren.