Have you ever tried soaking in pink paraffin to remove the "black goo"? If it is petroleum based it should desolve it.
Have you ever tried soaking in pink paraffin to remove the "black goo"? If it is petroleum based it should desolve it.
Hi, sorry I have not posted for some time, but I have only just got to shoot my 45/70 again this Saturday.
The cleanup has been much improved by the use of the Lyman fluid for ultra sonic cleaners.
Method:-
Soaked the decapped cases at the range in fairy liquid solution. (dish washing liquid I expect is very similar to new Dawn).
Then back at the ranch I gave the rinsed cases 15 minuets in a hot Fairy solution in the Ultrasonic. This removed a lot of black gunge. (Cases looked tarnished on outside)
Then 20 minuets with some once used Lyman fluid Solution. This also went very black and was discarded.
Then 20 minuets with new Lyman solution which discolored some. This I have kept to use again next time.
Then a simple swab out with kitchen paper. Some goo came out but not much! the cases looked much cleaner internally.
Then 10 minuets in the fan oven at low temperature to dry off.
Then about an hour and a half in the tumbler with Lyman green media and a little turbo brite.
The result some reasonably shiny cases on the outside and reasonably clean with no goo on the inside. I just brushed out the dust from inside and removed any remaining tarnishing on the outside with some rag and white spirit. They do not look like new exactly but are perfectly acceptable.
This may not seem particularly quick but it is fastest and easiest I have done so far with these big black powder cases using the ultrasonic. Much less swabbing out and one less wet operation as I did not need to remove the caked on dust from the inside using the ultrasonic at the end.
So looking up at long last
Adrian
New Cleaning Solution - Sparkling Brass in 15 Minutes!
With pictures to prove it works!
http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=229895
Regards
John
Interesting, I read the post through by John Boy on the Single Action Shooting Society web site; obviously a completely different tumbler and routine is required, however it raises a few questions in my mind about the use of the ultrasonic.
What is new Dawn? I have been assuming it is a dish washing liquid it looks as if I am wrong?
Does this system work with Black powder fired cases? If so does it work as quickly and effectively? (could the cases pictured have been loaded with smokeless ?)
Would scrubbing Bubbles work in the Ultrasonic?
SB and the other media mentioned like strat-o-sheen are probably not easily available if at all in the UK. Anybody know of a source for them?
Adrian
Dawn is a popular dishwashing detergent in the US. It quickly cuts grease and IMHO makes the best handwashing soap.
Have you tried hydrogen peroxide to clean black powder residue? When shooting muzzleloaders I use 1 part Murphys Oil Soap (a cleaner for finished wood), one part rubbing alcohol, and one part 3% hydrogen peroxide as a cleaning solution. I do not shoot BPCR, so I don't know how this would work on brass casings, but it does cut the number of patches (and effort) required to clean a muzzleloader.
I used the citric acid /dishwasher soap recipe and found the brass got discolored with the ultrasonic ,so anyone want to buy something that
is a big waste of time ?
I had a similar experience with the Citric acid. This whole thing seems to go round and round with different ideas. My last attempt with the Lyman fluid was however a lot more successful. Regarding your wish to sell the machine , I would comment as follows
I have noticed that there have not been a whole lot of people piling in to this discussion defending the ultrasonic machine as a way of cleaning black powder cartridges
Just being a little provocative, are they basically no good?
Adrian
Last edited by loadedbutbroke; 04-01-2015 at 07:29 PM. Reason: Got in a mess with fonts and sizes. My fault.
I started off Dry tumbling with Walnut media with some BB's mixed in. This was great for the outside but did nothing for this inside and primer pockets. Then I tried the soaking in vinegar, soap, water method and let dry, then Dry tumble not much better results. I bought a Lyman sonic cleaner I had to run the cases through the cleaner several times and I found that the results were not that impressive with the Sonic cleaner, not to clean on the inside dull on the outside. Since the tumbler I had was a rotary tumble and not a vibrating one, I broke the lock off my wallet and bought the stainless tumbling media. I have no regrets. I use water and about 1/2 ounce of Mr. clean or dish soap and a pinch of LemiShine and the results are amazing. The cases are clean in and out including the primer pockets, brass is nice and shinny like new, no toxic lead dust flying around. Once out of the tumbler I rinse with cold water, lay on a towel over night. Best results ever. You will not be disappointed.
srv4 wrote
This is interesting as it is similar to the results I achieved with my sonic cleaner to start with. May I ask:I bought a Lyman sonic cleaner I had to run the cases through the cleaner several times and I found that the results were not that impressive with the Sonic cleaner, not to clean on the inside dull on the outside.
which fluid you were using? was it the Lyman?
Also were these nitro fired cases or black powder?
If black powder did you get a black gooey substance form in the cases which was hard to remove? and which, if you tumbled with the vibrating tumbler stuck to the medium?
Many thanks Adrian
Finally got to shoot again and had some cases to clean. These are ones I have shot many times and have been progressivly cleaning up.
This time soak in fairy at range, then Ultrasonic with fairy for 20 minuets, then Ultrasonic for 30 minuets using used Lyman solution, (no swabbing out) into oven for 5 minuets to dry off into tumbler for about 3 hours.
Result shiney outsides and acceptably clean insides and flash holes.
(Apologies for picture quality these are hard to take.)
So a better result than I have had. In my opinion, while it takes much longer for the ultrasonic to get there than advertised, at least it get's the goo out in the end and the tumbler finishes off nicely.
I am sure other peoples suggestions for stainless media etc. would be quicker.
Adrian
The way I do this with my 45-70 cases (I use real BP btw.).
1) at the range, I drop the cases in a bottle with water and soap that you would use to do the dishes with).
2) shake the bottle gently before driving home, to get the soap nicely spread.
3) rinse them of with warm water.
4) drop them in a 50/50 water vinegar mixture for 5 minutes.
5) 15 minutes in a hot water ultra sonic cleaner with some vinegar (ps I re-use this mixture several times, until it is to dirty).
6) tumble for 2,5 hours (in corncob)
7) de-cap.
8) tumble 30 minutes more for a nice primer pocket.
A lot of steps, but easy to do while cleaning/drying the rifle.
Ps. Sorry for the spellfails, english is not my native language.
Hello dekker01
Your cleaning regime is not that dissimilar from the one I have been using recently with some successes but as you point out it does take time. One thing I do do, which seems to save a lot of fluid, is to give the soaked cases a session in the ultra sonic with dish-washing solution first for say 20 minuets. This really gets rid of the heavy fouling before I give the cases a go in the Lyman fluid for an hour.
Results are good and the goo I have had problems with in the past is not so much of an issue so well done Lyman. I also reuse the fluid as often as I can.
I think I have probably flogged this issue to death now, my conclusion is that the Ultrasonic does work given plenty of time and the correct fluid for the job. You still need to tumble for some time and I recon on a couple of hours so; it is not the answer to the maidens prayers! There are, as other contributors have said, better options, these stainless steel pins probably being the best (but I cant afford the media or the new tumbler).
Just a little aside, I thought I would try and clean up an old conventional outside garden tap for reuse. The Tap is cast plumbers grade brass with a rubber washer. The machine did a superb job in an hour using Lyman fluid and the result is a perfectly clean fully operating non leaking tap! Only slight wrinkle is the tap is now bright pink. Interestingly the fluid turned bright green.
By the way:- I have seen far worse English/spelling from English speaking Brits.
All the best and keep shooting
Adrian
Almost verbatim my experience. Tumbler, steel pins, Dawn, pinch of Lemishine / Citric acid = beautifully clean brass, inside and out. My ultrasonic cleaner and walnut tumbler sit in the corner unused now. The best deal going out there IMHO:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/713...ProductFinding
Best money you'll ever spend for brass cleaning. There are various posts about how to use media separators half full of water to separate pins from brass by spinning, works great. I use a dehydrator to speed drying, but toweling them off well and then letting them air dry works well if you have the time.
Before:
After:
Loaded but broke...Brass turns pink by the action of the acid leaching out the zinc in the copper/zinc alloy called brass. Too much acid = pink brass. As far as the greasy-goo that you have, it is probably a combination of powder fouling and lube. Have you tried using a solvent on the dirty brass first? Auto parts stores should have a 'carbon cleaner' of some sort, or use General Motors upper cylinder cleaner. It is made for soot, oil buildup. If you have a lot of buildup of grease, the water based detergents that many use only are repelled by the oil content of the goo.
Silverboolit writes:- Brass turns pink by the action of the acid leaching out the zinc in the copper/zinc alloy called brass.Interesting, does the fact that the tap is cast brass rather than drawn brass, as per a cartridge case, indicate that the zinc comes out more easily from cast? Is this something to do with the crystalline structure of the metal?
Back to shooting matters
Your point about the goo is a good one but I don't think there is much or any lube in it as the goo is down in the case where no lube is used. So assuming the goo is wet fouling then your idea about a carbon cleaner looks good. I haven't tried this specifically. White spirit seemed relatively ineffective.
Having said all that since i have been using the Lyman Fluid and since the cases are much better cleaned inside after each shoot, the problem has largely disappeared. Maybe the Lyman fluid has some sort of carbon cleaner in it?
Not sure about cast brass, but the cases that I overdid it on with acid sure were a pretty pink! I use acid to clean machined brass parts and if I leave them in too long, they get a pink patina. Maybe different percentages in the alloy?? I don't know.
Harbor freight Ultra-Sound burnt 30/30 brass I was cleaning used plastic knit bag to hold the brass but the brass got blue/black marks like high heat that ruined them.
I know use wet tumble with Stainless Steel pins and citric acid [I/2 spoon] and a couple squirts of Dawn dish soap.
Much better IMHO
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |