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Thread: Pyrodex

  1. #81
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can load more easily and more shots between cleanings in my muzzleloaders with Pyrodex's softer fouling. I clean the guns with hot water as soon as I get home, oiling with Hoppes afterward, and have no rust problems. Pyrodex RS does not bump up minie balls to grab the rifling in my repro enfield musket.

    Black has a harder fouling, I need to wipe the bore with a damp patch about every 5 shots when using it in my roundball guns (our hot dry summers may be part of this). The slip fit of the soft lubed minies in the musket works well with blackpowder.

    I'm slowly using up 12 year old Pyrodex and mid-1990' Goex and Elephant blackpowder from an estate. Still have a few pounds to go.

  2. #82
    Boolit Buddy CanoeRoller's Avatar
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    I use Pyrodex most of the time. There are some restrictive rules regarding BP where I live. It is a decent powder, though it is harder to ignite than BP, it is permitted in BPCRS, and it is my fallback. I would prefer BP, and would shoot it if I were more active as a competitor.

    It is very nice to go an buy a pound or two at the local shop.

    I find it only a tiny bit more corrosive than BP. A decent cleaning routine keeps the bores of my rifles clean and my brass like new.
    Direct descendent of stone age Eurasians.

  3. #83
    If you go to a Black Powder rondezvous, usually muzzleloaders attend, you can purchase Black Powder from the various suttlers. These rondezvous are held all over the state (the PR-Californica). I attend the rondezvous at Mountain Ranch (near Jackson on hwy 49). and Brushy Creek, just east of Beale AFB. I wont use Pryrodex, one of its by products is cyanide and it is terribly corrosive, see comments by Dick Trenk, former factory rep for Pedrisoli. He, Dick Trenk, died a few years ago. Also check the comments of Bill (William) Knight both can be found on the Cast Bullet Association Forum list. Bob 11B50

  4. #84
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    "I wont use Pryrodex (sic) one of its by products is cyanide and it is terribly corrosive...." BM

    Bob, You'll get no argument from me about how corrosive Pyrodex is. However, it's the potassium salts and not the cynanide, as you assert, which do most of the damage as they are hygroscopic. Moreover, one of the products [of combustion] of real BP is also potassium thiocyanide according to Sam Fadala* who cites the article, "Muzzle Loading Chemistry" by Joe W. Craig in Muzzle Blasts, October, 1972, p. 9). Bill Knight aka "the mad monk," I'm sure will agree that cyanide is a byproduct of BP combustion as well.

    *Sam Fadala, "Black Powder Loading Manual" (DBI Books: 1982), p. 36

  5. #85
    Boolit Master
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    SOMETHING WORTH MENTIONING.........X2, EPA, and other govt. agencies would not allow any product used by the general public to be so dangerous as cyanide. there are many types of cyanide in chemical versions... and I am sure that "IF" BP and pyrodex produce cyanide, it is the "NON-TOXIC" version.

    secondly, the "SALTS" are the key ingredients needed to make the residue corrosive. I hear so many people bash pyrodex because of the corrosive traits. Just do a good job of cleaning the barrel and quit whining about it. Heck, I had a Winchester XTR in 30-30 and the salt from my holding it with my bare hand created rust. Wake up America-

  6. #86
    Yes I have used it, because I used to get it for free...However if pyrodex or other substitutes are my only option to shoot....then I will be digging out the recipe, gathering the few ingredients I have to buy and fermenting a jar of urine (I can make it @ no cost) and I will start my making own black powder. (havent tried it yet, the turn off is that I have to open and poor in the the jar of fermented we-we to it)
    I do not shoot anything other than real black, it neutralizes with water, and I normally clean all of my black powder arms with water, and they get fed Vigilante Lubes only!
    Pyrodex and other substitutes are about 2 to 10 times more corrosive than real black powder depending on the brand. They grow hard fouling, and in my experience, and the stories I have heard from others, it is harder to ignight, giving normal results of missfires and hang fires.
    Save your self a headache and go to Powder Inc. and order yourself some real black powder.

  7. #87
    Hazmat charge is about $25 bucks. Just order enough to make it worth wile to order it.

  8. #88
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    guess im lucky. i go to friendship and get my black.

  9. #89
    Boolit Mold Col. Cornelius's Avatar
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    I use it in shotgun shells only for Cowboy Action Shooting. Been doing it for years, works just fine for shotgun!

  10. #90
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    Used Pyrodex RS in my 12 x 44 R this past weekend (30 rounds). Nice groups, no hard fouling, cleaned up fine with water. The cases did get a little tarnish.

    No reason to not use Pyrodex if you want too.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #91
    Sharpsman
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    There's always 'one'!!

  12. #92
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    Always one what?

  13. #93
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    if there is no local drive-to outlet for it, there is no reason other than money for not using the real deal black powder.

    there are more than a few online vendors that will mail order bp out to ya. i use maine powder house.

    do the dollar math ... goex @ maine powder house is $16.55/lb, 5lb is $82.75 + $26 hazmat + $17 shipping = $125.75, or $25.15/lb. increase the order to the max of 25lbs @ $413.75 and there is no hazmat fee and no shipping fee - do that in a group order with yer buds if necessary.

    so yeah, there is that d@mn hazmat fee, so order as much as yer wallet (or group order) will allow ... it gets used up quickly, typically lots faster than smokeless.
    Last edited by rfd; 03-23-2015 at 05:54 AM.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  14. #94
    Boolit Master

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    You are right and I myself have pointed out that very same thing, usually the mail order base prices are so much lower than "off the shelf" store prices that it will pretty much cancel out the extra shipping costs when buying in quantity but several folks have pointed out that they just buy a pound at a time and find it much cheaper and simpler to just buy the phony stuff at WalMart. It may be simpler but in the long run it's not cheaper, key words there being "in the long run" because some folks find it a lot easier to spend $20 or less spread out rather than laying out $150 or even a lot more than that at one time. For someone who only shoots a pound or so a season I have to admit it probably does make more sense, 5 lbs of powder may not last some of us long at all but it's a lot of powder for others so while it took me a while to realize that I suppose those folks do have a valid point.

  15. #95
    Boolit Master

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    group mail order buys are where it's at with bp for lotsa folks. this is where it pays to know locals using the the holy black and make purchase plans *before* y'all run out. so the real work might be finding others via clubs, ranges, lgs, or even via newspaper or pennysaver ads.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  16. #96
    Boolit Master

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    Yes group buys are an option but it kind of surprised me at just how many folks wanted only a pound of powder. I guess either I shoot too much or they shoot to little, Lol (at myself) but in any case I suppose if a person buys only a pound of powder and still has some of that left a year later then maybe just buying a sub might make sense. However it just brings me back to the same thing I have asked several times in the past, if a person don't want to shoot real BP for whatever the reason may be why not just shoot an appropriate smokeless "sub" in cartridge firearms? It's no more different than the real thing than shooting a sub so why bother with the fuss of shooting a sub when that's not BP shooting either?

  17. #97
    Boolit Master

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    one pound of black hasta mean very very little loading/shooting. at 7000 grains per pound, that'd be 100 rounds of .45-70 on the average. somewhat less for lesser loads, smaller s/s rifles, larger caliber muzzle loaders, and maybe 200 or so of western pistol rounds. that ain't much shooting happening at all, a pound goes real fast.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  18. #98
    Boolit Master

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    Exactly why it surprised me so much but the fact is that's all a lot folks shoot, for these it's mostly a hunting season thing and the rifle don't see much use the rest of the year. My take on it is that as long as a person enjoys what he/she is shooting and is doing it safely then have fun because that's what it's all about, the BP sport is just that BP and either a sub or smokeless is a deviation from that but unless it's a BP dedicated event then shooting these old time guns and cartridges is a much broader sport and no one should fuss at a person for what he/she chooses to shoot it as long as it's done safely. I think everyone who shoots these old timers should at least try real BP and give it a serious consideration and I feel they are cheating themselves by missing out on the real thing but that's just me, I like to discuss it and discuss the reasons but this is to encourage them to try it not an attempt to goad them into doing it my way -as the old saying goes different strokes for different folks.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    Of course I am not suggesting using smokeless in a ML or or cap&ball and I think we all pretty much understood this was about cartridge loads.

    My point is if real BP is not going to be used why bother with a sub? Why not just use a BP equivalent smokeless load and avoid the hassle of using the sub?
    Would you shoot smokeless in an M81 Vetterli circa 1887 or a Remington M67 Swedish Rollingblock circa 1874? Those are both cartridge guns and I wouldn't. I prefer the bolts of those gun to stay in the gun and not imbedded in my eye. I've heard of people using smokeless in those guns, but I'm not going to risk it over something STUPID like this. I use substitutes because I cannot find BP locally, I don't shoot enough of it to justify ordering 5 pounds or paying $30 for shipping, and because it works just fine in my rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    5 lbs of black powder delivered to your door, won't cost you anymore than 5 lbs of pyrodex ( and it is really sensitive to lot variation) and seriously in big bore rifle shooting even a 45-70 will only net you 500 rounds,, that's not many rounds if you shoot the thing at all.
    You assume that others shoot as much BP as you do. Many don't. I've had a pound of powder for over a year, and have made it less than half way through it. Why should I buy 5 pounds of the stuff when I don't shoot it much? I'd rather spend that money on something I'd actually use.

  20. #100
    Boolit Master

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    yep, dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks - it's all good in one's mind eye.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check