ADvertise hereInline FabricationRotoMetals2Repackbox
WidenersTitan ReloadingLee Precision

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 145

Thread: Pyrodex

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Tar Heel View Post
    Tim,

    I can't tell if you are asking a serious question here so I will assume you are really asking this.

    NEVER and I mean NEVER use smokeless propellant in a BP firearm. Some say you can and I offer that they are idiots. The world is full of them and it's also full of folks with missing eyes, fingers, and hands.

    If you were making a point in the above statement (question?), then we are united in our position and the reader is warned to not use smokeless propellant in a BP firearm. If the reader wishes to argue this point, argue with another idiot.
    No it was not a serious question, just a rhetorical one for the guy said if you don't use BP why use a sub, why not just use smokeless. It was to point out that some times smokeless is not an option. Handy hints (not you I know) like getting together with some friends and order a larger quantity of BP to spread the cost of Haz Mat fee. Like I could not have figured that out myself either. I know one other guy who sometimes shoots a Ruger Old Army, he might be interest in a pound of FFF more likely he would sell me a pound he has stashed that he will probably never use, if I tell him I really need it. I have been using Trail Boss in my more than 100 year old Smith and Wesson New Frontier in 44-40 but think Black or Pyrodex would be a better choice. Mostly I just don't shoot it. I am not comfortable with smokeless loads for the Double Rifle. I know others have done it safely but I paid $2500 for it and it is worth double that. I can't see risking it with smokeless so my stash of Black goes to it and my other guns get Pyrodex. I can afford a $50 pound of BP but when I can buy a pound of Pyrodex locally for less than $20 I don't see the point of springing for the Black. Actually, I have not shot either of my cap and ball pistols in a couple years or my two percussion rifles. I did shoot my Swedish Roller with Pyrodex recently and the double rifle with black. I have some 777 I got locally that I have not tried. Like I said, I can get Pyrodex or 777 at the store sometimes but no Black or smokeless. I can get smokeless at the a local gun show but no Black. The OP asked about Pyrodex and he got some good responses and some that I thought were not so good.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by nhrifle View Post
    Why not make your own?
    I think that would be a hobby of its own. I have read some of those posts. I have considered it. Too many kinds of fun and not enough time.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Hazmat is 28.50 per order, 1 lb or 50 still just 28.50.
    You can go to www. powderinc.com (they are in Arkansas)http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/order.htm the price shown per pound is delivered (hazmat included) Grafs will ship you a minimum of 4 lbs of powder, plus the 28.50 hazmat
    I just checked Powderinc. they have a 5 pound minimum order. You need to fill out a form that they have to keep on file. Maybe it can be Faxed. They also say that Black Powder cannot be resold. Thanks for the leads, it may be useful to others.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    NV
    Posts
    669
    Last winter I did the minimum order from ( I think ) Powderinc for 5 ea. 1lb. cans of cannon grade Goex. I have a scale cannon, 1 1/16" bore. Usually load about 1/4 cup powder charge with a patched 1" ball bearing. This stuff performed poor at best, very little recoil, low pressure shots falling way short. Wonder if ATF is making them tone it down some, quality of this lot is junk ?? Now I have 4 lbs. of this junk powder. Very reluctant to double up the powder charge, or to keep working it up to a higher pressure, don't want to turn this barrel into a bomb. This real black powder is 1F. Over the last 40 years with this cannon, I've burned more than 30 lbs. of cannon grade black, this is the weakest lot I've ever encountered. Once this is gone, will start looking for some sort of a replacement. Don't know what the quality of the finer grained Goex stuff is like, don't own a smaller bore BP that uses 2 3 or 4 F. But if you smaller bore folks ever run into this problem, you sure will start looking for a substitute directly after.
    Chris

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Unless shooting in a competition that specifies black or substitutes, and you don't want to shoot black , why mess with the subs? Smokeless works well in most cartridges, and doesn't require the attention to detail that blackpowder does.
    As far as availability of black,it's as hard to get as ordering from Powder Inc, Grafs and a couple other places and then letting UPS or FedEx do the delivery..
    Powderinc, 5 pounds minimum, Grafs is 4 pounds minimum plus haz mat, anyplace else has haz mat. They all say you can't resell, must sign for delivery, must send them an affidavit. Can buy subs at the local Walmart.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    5,415
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    I just checked Powderinc. they have a 5 pound minimum order. You need to fill out a form that they have to keep on file. Maybe it can be Faxed. They also say that Black Powder cannot be resold. Thanks for the leads, it may be useful to others.

    Tim
    So what's all the owl hooey about reselling over? **** man, a pound of powder will only give you 100 rounds in a 45-70.. 200 maybe in one of the little wcf cartridges,,, Hells bells.. man 5 lbs of powder ain't nothing.. I've shot over a 25 lb case this year, about out of powder again and need to decide how much to order here shortly.... resell??? Not around here there's nothing to resell..
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    5,415
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Powderinc, 5 pounds minimum, Grafs is 4 pounds minimum plus haz mat, anyplace else has haz mat. They all say you can't resell, must sign for delivery, must send them an affidavit. Can buy subs at the local Walmart.

    Tim
    Yessir been ordering and shooting one or more full cases of powder, plus the occasional 5-10 lb lots from them for years.. You can buy a lot of **** at WalMart, don't mean it's anything worth bringing home tho... Cost me more than the 28.50 hazmat in fuel to drive to the closest Walmart..
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Yessir been ordering and shooting one or more full cases of powder, plus the occasional 5-10 lb lots from them for years.. You can buy a lot of **** at WalMart, don't mean it's anything worth bringing home tho... Cost me more than the 28.50 hazmat in fuel to drive to the closest Walmart..
    Well good for you and bad for you. I can drive to the range and back 6 times on $28 in gas. I can walk to Walmart. I don't shoot 5 pounds of any one powder in any year. Thinking what works for you also works for other people leads you to give bad advice or maybe not, you might have hitched the OP up with just the deal he needs. I have gone thru a bunch of Green Dot this year but the 8 pound jug still has a lot left. The 450 BPE does eat a lot of Black in those long cases but when I take it to the range I shoot maybe 20 rounds. I do have 40 pieces of brass but 20 rounds a couple times a year is all the attention it gets unless you count the time I spend looking at the pretty wood. I have many other guns I shoot much more and they don't use Black Powder.

    Tim

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    So what's all the owl hooey about reselling over? **** man, a pound of powder will only give you 100 rounds in a 45-70.. 200 maybe in one of the little wcf cartridges,,, Hells bells.. man 5 lbs of powder ain't nothing.. I've shot over a 25 lb case this year, about out of powder again and need to decide how much to order here shortly.... resell??? Not around here there's nothing to resell..
    What part of I would like one pound of ff Black Powder can't you understand. Don't want or need 5 pounds, not looking to buy a life time supply. With 5 pounds I would be leaving some in my estate. The pound of Pyrodex and the pound of 777 (not even opened yet, after more than two years) might not get used up, 20 years ago or so I did go thru a pound of Pyrodex P, it was new then and I wanted to try it out I shot my cap and ball revolver a lot more then, did not have all the gun I have now. For some of us shooting cap and ball or percussion or BP cartridges is only a sometime thing not our regular trip to the range.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,701
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Would you use smokeless in a cap and ball revolver or a reproduction Hawkin or a Belgian made double rifle in 450 BPE. Sometimes I can find Pyrodex at Walmart or Academy. Around here, no shops of any kind have Black Powder. Don't even see it at the local Gunshow. A pound lasts me years. I clean these gun within hours of shooting them and never had corrosion problems with Pyrodex. Yes, I would rather shoot real black and do. I still have part of a can Goex FFF. If you were going to order a pound of FF BP, where would you order it?

    Tim


    Of course I am not suggesting using smokeless in a ML or or cap&ball and I think we all pretty much understood this was about cartridge loads.

    My point is if real BP is not going to be used why bother with a sub? Why not just use a BP equivalent smokeless load and avoid the hassle of using the sub? Neither smokeless nor the sub is like BP and if you use a sub your shooting is different than either smokeless or BP! Of course smokeless does not load, shoot nor smell like BP but then neither does any of the subs and while the smokeless is noncorrosive, non-fouling and cleaning of the gun and cases is not critical any one of the subs is all of those things while shooting any of them is still not like shooting real BP so why bother? Don't get me wrong it's your rifle so enjoy what you like, that's what this sport is all about and my intention was not to belittle anyone for their choices but I honestly would like to hear the reasons why folks would choose these subs over smokeless if they decide to pass on BP?

    I guess my point is that by shooting smokeless a person is going to miss out on what the BP sport is all about, the real tradition behind it, the way it was experienced "back in the day" and what these rifles/cartridges are all about, that's the reason we shoot BP right? But sometimes a person may just want to shoot their rifle without the extra care that BP requires, I do fairly often even though BP has become my first choice. Just as with smokeless by choosing any one of the subs the shooter is STILL going to miss out on everything BP is about, the old way of doing things, the loading procedures the way it was done, the way BP shoots and even the way it smells but the "extra care" required is going to be even more critical with most of these substitutes and you STILL miss out on the reasons why we shoot BP in the first place!
    Last edited by oldred; 11-03-2014 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    central texas
    Posts
    637
    Try the pyrodex and see if you like it. I would clean my bore well and again the next day. I have spotted for a fellow who uses it because he bought a bunch cheap. He does no fouling control and has moved up to class A in bpcr. I always love to watch the flaming wad that flies down range when he fires. I don't use it. LB

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,046
    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    Of course I am not suggesting using smokeless in a ML or or cap&ball and I think we all pretty much understood this was about cartridge loads.

    My point is if real BP is not going to be used why bother with a sub? Why not just use a BP equivalent smokeless load and avoid the hassle of using the sub? Neither smokeless nor the sub is like BP and if you use a sub your shooting is different than either smokeless or BP! Of course smokeless does not load, shoot nor smell like BP but then neither does any of the subs and while the smokeless is noncorrosive, non-fouling and cleaning of the gun and cases is not critical any one of the subs is all of those things while shooting any of them is still not like shooting real BP so why bother? Don't get me wrong it's your rifle so enjoy what you like, that's what this sport is all about and my intention was not to belittle anyone for their choices but I honestly would like to hear the reasons why folks would choose these subs over smokeless if they decide to pass on BP?

    I guess my point is that by shooting smokeless a person is going to miss out on what the BP sport is all about, the real tradition behind it, the way it was experienced "back in the day" and what these rifles/cartridges are all about, that's the reason we shoot BP right? But sometimes a person may just want to shoot their rifle without the extra care that BP requires, I do fairly often even though BP has become my first choice. Just as with smokeless by choosing any one of the subs the shooter is STILL going to miss out on everything BP is about, the old way of doing things, the loading procedures the way it was done, the way BP shoots and even the way it smells but the "extra care" required is going to be even more critical with most of these substitutes and you STILL miss out on the reasons why we shoot BP in the first place!
    I apologies for the distraction. I did not notice this was the cartridge forum before I made the other posts. I use BP and subs not for nostalgia or a "back in the day" experience. I use it because they are the safest choice for some old guns that I like to shoot every once in a blue moon. Developing a Smokeless load would take time and there would be some risk of an over load. With BP or subs, very little load development was needed and the guns shoot to point of aim.

    I am sorry if I intruded into a forum for "serious BPCR" shooters.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,701
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    I apologies for the distraction. I did not notice this was the cartridge forum before I made the other posts. I use BP and subs not for nostalgia or a "back in the day" experience. I use it because they are the safest choice for some old guns that I like to shoot every once in a blue moon. Developing a Smokeless load would take time and there would be some risk of an over load. With BP or subs, very little load development was needed and the guns shoot to point of aim.

    I am sorry if I intruded into a forum for "serious BPCR" shooters.

    Tim
    No reason for anyone to take offense, discussion is what the forum is all about! Like I said I'm all for whatever anyone wants to shoot, heck just get out there and shoot and let's keep the sport alive! It's just that sometimes we see, not only here but other places also, someone talking about the "BP experience" when shooting a sub and some of these folks may have never even shot real BP and don't know the difference. There's smokeless load data for most, but certainly not all, of the BP cartridges but I think smokeless would be risky in some original firearms built before modern steels were used and many would be downright dangerous, however since most subs are "hotter" than real BP there might (or might not) also be some risk when using a sub in one of these firearms. I honestly was just curious as to how many folks regularly shoot a sub even in modern replicas and the reasons why.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
    GOPHER SLAYER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cherry Valley ,Ca.
    Posts
    2,154
    When I started this thread about Pyrodex I wanted people who have used it to give me there experience with it and opinion of it. While I appreciate all the other responses most will simply not work for me. To began with I just reached my eightieth year so I don't want to buy a large amount of anything. I heard Jimmy Dickens say at his age he doesn't even buy green bananas. I think since that remark he has checked out. Since I live in a retirement village making my own is not an option, neighbors too close and I don't live on twenty acres in the country. I have shot and enjoyed muzzle loaders, cap & ball revolvers and BP cartridge rifles for sixty years and modern cartridge guns long before that. I have come to the point where only the big bore cartridge rifles hold any interest for me and I have several. I don't know enough people to make up an order for even ten LBS of black powder much less twenty five. I should also mention all the rules about buying and storing any kind of powder much less black here in Kommifornia. I must say I am surprised about hearing how difficult it is buying BP in areas where I never thought there would be a problem. I guess big brothers reach is all inclusive. As for Pyrodex I can gather from the majority of responses that it is not a good substitute for Holy Black. My thanks to all who took part in the discussion.
    A GUN THAT'S COCKED AND UNLOADED AIN'T GOOD FOR NUTHIN'........... ROOSTER COGBURN

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    5,415
    5 lbs of black powder delivered to your door, won't cost you anymore than 5 lbs of pyrodex ( and it is really sensitive to lot variation) and seriously in big bore rifle shooting even a 45-70 will only net you 500 rounds,, that's not many rounds if you shoot the thing at all.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    East Tn
    Posts
    3,701
    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    5 lbs of black powder delivered to your door, won't cost you anymore than 5 lbs of pyrodex

    That's a good point, I did a quick search and came up with,

    Powder Inc,
    Goex 5 lbs including shipping and Hazmat, per pound $24.40

    Goex 10 lbs including shipping and Hazmat, per pound $19.05


    Bass pro,

    Pyrodex $22.49 per pound

    Interesting that at 10 lbs a pound of BP is a couple of dollars cheaper than Pyrodex and even at 5 lbs it's only a couple of dollars more, at 25 lbs the BP is only $15.40 per pound including shipping and Hazmat which is about $7.00 per pound cheaper than pyrodex at Bass pro.

    I first looked for WalMart's price on Pyrodex but the only thing they list now is Pyrodex pellets, I wonder if maybe they are discontinuing it at the stores??????

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    5,415
    Back in the late 70's when Pyrodex first came out, Black Powder truly was hard to get. You could not order it thru the mail, you had to buy it from an explosives dealer. So Pyrodex was supposed to be the wave of the future. Problem was it wouldn't work in flintlocks, to get it to work very well in cartridge guns you had to compress the snot out of it.. And we all found out it was in fact corrosive, and other than any FFL that sold powder could sell it.. Flash forward these 40 years, black is simple to get as it can be ordered from a plethora of different places. Pyrodex still won't work in a flintlock, still have to mash the snot out of it to work in cartridges, and still have to clean up after shooting, and the cost is the same or there abouts as blackpowder... So nothing has changed, it's an option for those that want to, but the question it was supposed to answer was withdrawn long ago...
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy Desertbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    307
    sorry went to edit and it double posted.
    Last edited by Desertbuck; 11-03-2014 at 11:33 PM.
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy Desertbuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    307
    My opinion is Black Powder is better than Pyrodex hands down. But I do use Pyrodex when I don't have any BP or the funds to buy atleast 15 pounds time I will go buy 1 or 2 pounds. As for the corrosive problems people seem to have with it, I never have! As soon as I get home my gun barrel get soaked with murphy's oil soap and laundry detergent mix in water of course, run a couple of dry patches down then 1 more soaking for good measure followed up with more dry patchs, the workings get a damp wipe down with an old rag, and after that a patch gets soaked with good old 10-30w motor oil the workings get a couple drops of it as well rack the workings a couple of times wipe everything down and put away.
    But I do have a warning for you Pyrodex does not get along with really big BP cartridges for some reason! Works just fine in my 45 colt pistol and rifle as well my cap and ball. But for me anyhow when I stuffed it in my shiny new 45-120 sharps I got very strange snappy muzzle report dangerous pressure spike evident from a stretched case flattened primer loose primer pocket and very excessive recoil!!! I literally almost dislocated my shoulder I had to jump backwards to keep from falling on my butt. I passed that one off as beginners luck. Some time went by my shoulder felt better I checked and rechecked my methods and followed everything to the T and got the same result! I didn't shoot my lovely Sharps for almost 2 years because I was terrified of it. However I committed myself to finding some good old Goex and its been nothing but smiles since.
    THE GUN
    The gun has been praised.
    The gun has been denounced.
    The gun has played a critical role in History.
    The gun has been implemented for good.
    The gun has been abused for evil.
    With the gun comes a great moral responsibility!
    To better understand the gun is to better under stand History. And with the gun protect your future.
    D.B

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
    winelover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    North Central Arkansas
    Posts
    1,936
    I use Pyrodex "P" (pistol) exclusively in my muzzleloaders. It just plain works and is not considered an explosive. I don't have an "out-building" and I wont keep black powder in my house. Never had a corrosion issue. I clean my guns after each shooting session. I have kept my "cleaned" muzzleloaders loaded for well over a year and they go off without a hitch. Again, no corrosion. I shot this buck last year with my ROA and a Lee 220 conical (35 Grains of Pyrodex "P").

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1130 2.jpg 
Views:	22 
Size:	140.3 KB 
ID:	120959

    Since it was early in the season, I just cleaned the barrel and the one fired cylinder chamber. Left it loaded that way, till this season was over. No corrosion and all remaining 5 shots went off, as expected.

    Pyrodex use to offer a Pyrodex "CTG" version just for BP cartridges. I have no experience with, it since I have no BP cartridge guns. If I did, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. In perusing Hodgon's website, they now offer a Pyrodex "Select" that they recommend for BP cartridge guns.

    Winelover

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check