Role of the Master Caster Fan

[jmorris]

A seal that lasts 55 years is pretty impressive. What was it made of?

[Tazza]

Are you talking a water separator like you get with an integrated regulator or the style that have a chiller to really remove the humidity?

55 years from a seal is impressive. I guess it depends on it's role in life. You get Orings to seal plugs, if they don't move they can last a long time. Mostly i see seals failing on hydraulic gear, but the biggest cause of failure for them is age, heat and UV. Wiper seals turn to powder after being exposed to sunlight for any decent period of time.

I want to setup an oiler for my machine. I have a used one that i need to pull down and clean up. With that said, i have about 50k rounds cast on mine, the cylinder was still in good shape.

[HATCH]

http://www.macping.com/top-10-window...s-on-your-mac/

[Advil]

Side note, was just thinking that if the tappers use a relay to activate, I could use the same relay to shut the sprue cooling fan off when the mold is open. Even less trouble with spout freezing.

[Tazza]

The thing is when its in that position, that's when it is doing its best work cooling the mold. The spout should not freeze from this.

[HATCH]

Sounds like Advil as a extra fan pointing under the pot to cool the sprue.

I don't find that its needed unless you are trying to run it faster then ten second cycle times or heavy boolits at then second cycles times or less


What I suggest is that you run a delay on break relay that is triggered by the lead pour signal.
Let's say a 4 sec delay on break.
So at the start of lead pour the fan comes on and then it runs for 4 secs after the lead pour signal stops.
That way the fan isn't always running and you shouldn't have a lead freeze problem.
The fan would come on when lead is flowing and the hot lead would keep it from freezing.
The amount of time you set it would just be enough to cool the sprue.
I just used four seconds as a example

[Tazza]

That is a good point, ideally you don't want air blowing on the lead stream and timers would be perfect for that. It gives the fan time to slow down/stop before the next drop of lead.

[Advil]

I like that idea Hatch.

[HATCH]

That will be $24.99 for my technical services...... HAHAHA

I think its your best option for your particular application.
Regardless of your setup you have to have some signal going to a valve to control lead pour.
Its either gonna be a air valve controlling the air cylinder or its gonna be a electric solenoid.

By chance are you running a PLC??
If so it would be real easy to just change the code to do a output for x amount of time
Then have the output trigger a relay that starts the fan.

[Tazza]

$24.99? geez, you are under selling your services there!

[HATCH]

My services are $125 per hour for what I do at work.
But to be honest on the control panels I have built for members here in have only charged $20 per hr and then under rated the man hours it took to build it.

I only charged $20 per hr because if I did it for less then everyone would want me to build them.
To be real honest I think I built a couple for only $50 total labor.
I went up because building panels eats up my free time.

[Tazza]

I know the feeling, projects i do in my spare time i don't charge anywhere near enough. I really need to sit down and work out a rate per hour and stick to it. The price you have been charging for control boxes is very low, i guess you need to also factor in the fact it is your knowledge that they are paying for too. You take the time to not only make it work, but it looks professional and not like it was thrown together in 5 minutes in a back alley.

A plumber mate made a good point about this, his mates rates are say 40/hour for work he is charged out at 120/hour for the same jobs. He sticks to his prices as if he doesn't do it, you will be paying someone else more to do the exact same thing.

It's nice to help people out, but if they are not close personal friends or someone that equally helps you out, you need to charge at a decent rate. I have friends that i don't expect anything from, as they would do the same for me.

[HATCH]

I am gonna a build one more control panel and then that's it. I have a spare plc and all the parts for the panel itself then I am done with them.

[Tazza]

Till someone waves a wad of cash under your nose and asks politely?

If you get a fair price, it is worth your time, but if not it really isn't. I'm sure you have other projects that you would rather spend your time on.

The future mods of adding a touch screen, i assume this is a quick process of plug in and hit a few keys. No drilling, mounting, wiring etc for a control box.

[HATCH]

Touch screen is just cutting a rectangle hole and plugging it in.

My panel now has the minimal amount of controls that you want to run
Main power on/off , start button, stop button, and touch screen.
You could just have main power and do start/stop via TS but safety would be lost if you did this.

Last panel I did cost $550 to the 'customer'. But that included all electronic parts needed. Basically if you had your master caster running pneumatic then you could automated it with what I provided.

[Advil]

Don't burn yourself out Hatch. We need you around to come up with the ideas, even if you don't physically build them yourself. The fact you and Wyman have the know-how to select things that work from off-the-shelf parts is already an invaluable resource. We appreciate it more than you know.

Yep, I've got the PLC (software acquired through you). If I can get some free time at work I'll open up 6.1dt and see if I can determine how difficult coding another timer to activate a relay based on the lead pour will be. I did a little looking around yesterday and that will be far easier than finding a delay on break relay that works in seconds instead of minutes. And it adds the benefit of fine tuning the starting of the fan just before lead pour stops so it has time to speed up. No unnecessary blowing on the lead stream, and maximum time with the fan on the sprue at full blast.

[HATCH]

If you are running my unmodified version of the program then you do not need to change ANYTHING in programming as its already taken care of.

Y3 is the output for lead pour.
This output is turned on 1 or 2 seconds after the limit switch is closed. The start delay is determined by the times that are set in the T1 and T2 timing blocks.
Y3 is can only be active if the limit switch is closed and the machine is in the RUN mode.
Once the limit switch is open, Y3 is deactivated.

So you need to get a 24vdc coil relay.
Have that relay control the fan you have have pointed under the spout.

Y3 goes to the timing relay

If you have any questions PM me you phone # and I will call you and talk to you about it.

I am not going anywhere, I just don't need the money and to be honest tired of building panels for other people.

Now if you do want it not to start until after lead pour has stopped then you could do a 1 sec delay on make.
Something like this -> http://www.amazon.com/Packard-PTD102...+on+make+timer

The problem with 6.1DT is that the lead pour time is controlled externally. There isn't a way for the PLC to know when the lead has stopped pouring. I tried to tie the external timer back to the PLC but it wouldn't work when I tried it.

I do have a crazy thought... yeah CRAZY.
This is kinda a safety circuit time design. It will take 2 24dc coil relays and the fan will only come on after lead pour and only when we are calling for the lead pour output (y3)
So the fan will only run AFTER lead pour is finished AND ONLY when the mold is under the put AND its in the run mode

Relay 1 basically we can hook it up from the wires that run to the lead pour valve
Coil + = Y3
Coil - = Timer terminal # 3
Common - y3
normally closed = Coil + on relay 2

Relay 2
Coil + = NC terminal on relay 1
Coil - = DC GROUND
Common = 120v (whatever power you are doing fan)
normally open = FAN

Thats it.

now your into me for $50 for my time.. LOL

[HATCH]

This is the relay setup in was talking about.

Y3 is hooked to the normally closed contact on the first relay.

When y3 is energized it starts the lead pour timer which energizes the first relay. This opens the contact.
After lead pour is complete, the contact closes. Y3 is still energized so Y3 goes thru the now closed contact and energizes the second relay.
The second relay switches the fan on.
Depending on the length of time that is set in the mold set block it may be 6 seconds y3 stays energized.
After the mold set timer is complete. The mold is moved off the limit switch and y3 is de-energized.

[Advil]

UPDATE on fan control relays:

I have the relays installed exactly as Hatch showed in the previous 2 posts.

Made about 1300 bullets last night. It works very well. I was able to run the 40mm fan at full speed and it doesn't come on until lead pour finishes.

The spout didn't freeze even once on me!!! You have no idea how happy that makes me.

There is more than one way to do this sprue fan. you can put it in front or behind the mold. Mine is in front for now. Either way the smaller and more powerful the fan is the better. There isn't a lot of room behind the mold between it and the pivot block. And in front the fan can't be very tall or the mold will hit it as it travels.

Here is the fan I'm using now. Seems to be about right for small to medium bullets:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835706031

There is a higher CFM fan that I'd like to try eventually but havn't yet:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-043-_-Product

Keep in mind these are 9000rpm or 13000rpm fans. They are perfectly ordinary fans in rack mount computer servers. But don't stick your finger in one. You may want to buy a pair of the appropriate fan guards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...05R3-_-Product

[HATCH]

Glad it is working for you.