45 Colt Shotshells

[TCStehle]

I'm pretty sure this has already been done by others but I thought I'd share my experience.

I found a couple of Winchester AA HS .410 hulls at the range so I thought I'd do a little experimenting.

First, I cut them back to 1.7" which is just under the cylinder length of my NM Blackhawk. Next I removed the crimp sleeve and adjuster from my Lee 45acp factory crimp die and resized the brass portion. I'm not sure this actually did much but I thought it was a good "just in case" step. I then punched out the spent primer and re-primed with a Winchester 209. I found that using a magnetic bit driver type screwdriver worked pretty good for repriming. With the bit removed of course, it fits perfectly down the hull and allowed me to just push the hull and primer down flat against the workbench to seat the primer.

Next I weighed and charged with 5.0gr of Bullseye. For the over-powder wad I used a cardboard wad cut with a sharpened 40 S&W case. The wad fit the hull perfectly and that same bit driver screwdriver pushed the over-powder cardboard wad down flush on top of the powder. Obviously, I did not compress the Bullseye charge, I just sat the cardboard wad on top of it.

For the shot charge I filled the hull with #9 shot and then poured it out and weighed it on my scale - 217.2 grs. Just a touch short of 1/2 oz!! I was surprised and somewhat concerned about my choice of 5.0 grs of Bullseye. But, I figured this was going into a NM Blackhawk that spits out 30k psi Ruger ONLY loads so 217 grs of shot pushed by 5.0 grs of Bullseye should be well within safe limits of the Blackhawk. If you try this yourself I'd suggest a lighter Bullseye start charge or a slower powder with slightly less shot, maybe Unique? As always work up your load.

For the over-shot wad I used the same sharpened 40 S&W case and cut a plastic wad from the lid of a cottage cheese container. Once again it fit perfectly and a bead of super glue gel held it in place nicely.

The finished shot shell round looks pretty decent in my opinion. Here it is compared to a 45 Colt 250 gr LRNFP:



They do fit snug in my NM Blackhawk cylinder which has been reamed to .4525 for shooting cast boolits. I have to finish pushing the rounds into the cylinder when they encounter the throat of each chamber. But, the force required is mild and by no means what I would consider forcing it. With that said, these may be too snug for non-reamed cylinders and most likely too long at 1.7" for anything other than the large frame Blackhawks.



I did test fire one round at 10 feet out of my 4 5/8" bbl NM Blackhawk. The recoil was mild, no signs of excessive pressure, extraction was easy. The pattern at 10 feet was pretty impressive in my opinion. By my calculations you're putting around 362 pellets of #9 shot on target.




I just thought I'd share and as always, attempt this at your own risk!! These are my results only and YMMV. I'm not responsible if you do something silly and hurt yourself or others!!

TC

[bangerjim]

Loading "alternate" loads for 45LC's is fun. I do it all the time.

From using 45 brass to 410 hulls, I use various loads of #7-9 shot and powders varying from Titegroup to Clays to well......just about any pistol powder I have on the bench at the time.

Even walnut shells for "bee loads". Quite and really knocks them down.

And do not forget powder coated round balls!

That is why the 45LC is my favorite cal! So much you can do with it.

Good shooting!

banger

[35 Whelen]

What an excellent idea!! I have plenty of .410 hulls so I may have to try it. Have you tried them while loaded in a cylinder of regular loads? My concern when I built shot loads was the card coming out under recoil. The first shot loads I tried in my 45 Colts were assembled in 44-40 cases I opened up in a .45 die. I seated and crimped a round ball over the shot and they hold fine:



The really neat thing is the ball hits almost POA at about 20'. (I was aiming at the "B"):




The bad thing about this load is the possibility of ricochet when shooting amongst rocks.

More recently I built a few using 45 Colt cases and a couple of plastic discs in front of and behind the shot. I applied a pretty liberal bead of Elmer's glue but haven't tried them yet.

Thanks for your post!

35W

[bangerjim]

Try using an aluminum GC backwards in the end! Works great. Run it thru your 452 sizing die 1st so it will go inside the brass and then you can very LIGHTLY crimp the brass over it. By turning it around, you get the entire space in the case. And unlike the unreliable adhesion of glue, you have control of the crimp everytime.

Makes a very professional looking shell!

banger

[TCStehle]

35W,

I haven't had a chance to see how the shot shells hold up in the cylinder under recoil from a 45 Colt round. I plan on testing that and some other stuff next time out.

One note, after taking the pictures of the shot shells in the cylinder I had to push them out using wooden dowel due to the snug fit. The super glued plastic over-shot wad held up under direct pressure but that's not the same as recoil energy and pulse. However, in general I think the plastic to plastic super glue bond is usually pretty strong.

If you try loading these for your medium framed Vaquero you'll definitely need to doing some measuring and test fitting. I believe the medium framed Vaquero's have a smaller cylinder in both diameter and length compared to the New Model Blackhawks. So you'll need to cut the hulls a bit shorter and check the clearance of the .410's rim and the cylinder ratchet. The rim diameter of the .410 is larger than the 45 Colt rim so you may have interference issues. I guess if the interference isn't huge you could "notch" the .410's rim with a file and load the notch against the ratchet. I wouldn't get to aggressive with any filing though, I'm not sure how much that might weaken the brass/steel of the .410 hull. Just be safe with whatever you decide to do!!

I'll report back here once I get a chance to test the shot shells under recoil and do some other testing. Now I just need to find some more Win AA HS .410 hulls!! Not a shotgun gauge I own and not one I find many empties for at the range.

TC

[osteodoc08]

You know you could do the same in a 45 colt case. Use gas checks or even heavy card stock. Less labor intensive, but that's half the fun, isn't it?

Thanks for the photos and story. Kudos.

Lots of great suggestions under a thread earlier this year. "Bee Load" or something like that.

[35 Whelen]

I built 45 Colt shotshells years ago using gas checks but no longer have any so I just make the cards, or more accurately discs from an old coffee can lid.

35W

[TCStehle]

You know you could do the same in a 45 colt case. Use gas checks or even heavy card stock. Less labor intensive, but that's half the fun, isn't it?

Thanks for the photos and story. Kudos.

Lots of great suggestions under a thread earlier this year. "Bee Load" or something like that.

You're exactly right, not nearly as much fun going the easier route and using 45 Colt cases.

[NoAngel]

Using 45 Colt brass wouldn't look half as cool as little mini-.410's do!! I love this. Gotta grab some outta the trash next range trip and make me some too!

CURIOUS: Wonder how well a roll crimp would work as opposed to glueing the over shot card? I wouldn't mind buying the tool. They'd probably look really cool too!

[TCStehle]

You'd lose some shot capacity using a roll crimp because you'd have to allow room for it to "unroll" when fired and not lockup your revolver. However, the finished round would look pretty slick and have a nice factory appearance.

[warboar_21]

I tried some of the .45 Colt versions and shot several in my Blackhawk. Had a heck of a time cleaning out the lead that it left behind in the barrel. I used gas checks for a couple as well as using heavy card stock. I just stick to the Speer shortshell cups now.

[Bearbait in NM]

I love these kinds of threads. Have been piddling with shot charges for lots of guns over the years. Was planning on doing more of this, this winter with my New Frontier and new to me 454 Casull Browning 1885. Thinking the Browning being a single shot would make the card/crimp a non-issue.

To that end, I also picked up 410 shot wads. having been down this road, it's the rifling that really wrecks these loads in many guns. Hoping that the shot wads may help. I have done the longer brass necked to fit the cylinder throats trick, but these can sometimes tie up the gun if the case sets back. Have the speer shot capsules, but they really do not hold the quantity of lead I would like. Thanks for the write up, TC.

35, I had gallery loads on my list also for this winter, primarily for my 1885, but was gonna tinker with the NF. Might have to try a pinch of shot behind the ball. Cool idea. I usually piddle with these things thinking grouse. To date, I usually just carry my bearcat, as I have not been impressed with results in my 454.

Craig

Craig

[TCStehle]

I'm not exactly sure why, but leading in the barrel is definitely an issue when shooting shot out of a rifled barrel. My Lewis lead remover generally makes short work of removing it though so I'll take the bigger payload of the mini .410 rounds vs. using Speer shot capsules.

[NoAngel]

Wonder if using a wad trimmed down to just a shot cup would cure that?BPI has a really shirt "stubby" wad that looks like it might cure that leading problem

[OuchHot!]

I have heard of people cutting down plastic wads to prevent leading but haven't tried it. Those patterns sure look good! That should handle a rat or snake just fine.

[NoAngel]

THese are the ones I was talking about. I may order some and see if they'll work. For $8....I've wasted more on less.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Stu...tinfo/0724105/

[Johnny_V]

I just love projects like this.

Though not 45 LC, when making my 45 ACP Shotshells, I used the .410 wad and cut it down to ¾" (held 97 grains of #9 shot). I made a special die and mandrel to get the wads all the same length. On top of the shot I used an inverted .37 caliber gas check with a roll crimp. My cases were made from 7.62 x 51mm Lake City brass.

Attachment 121008 Attachment 121009 Attachment 121011

[country gent]

I did this for use on rats and vermin in the barn and I purchased some of the clear plastic file folders for reports. Cut them for 2 wraps ends matchig like a paper patch for a bullet. Insert in case on top of a gas check The lip gives it a place to seat and hold it. Fill with shot and seat the second gas check seal or crimp. Gives a little better "patern" and helps keep the lead shot out of the rifling.

[skeettx]

I would suggest trimming a 444 Marlin to cylinder length, then shouldering the case so it will fit your chamber.
Then load with a trimmed Win AA 410 wad, and add shot and then an inverted 45 cal gas check or a cardboard
over shot wad and elmer's glue.

Johnny V same for you in 45 ACP and you will not have to use Moon Clips or dig them out

For auto 45ACP shot shells, have you tried 45 Win Mag brass??

Mike

[Johnny_V]

I would suggest trimming a 444 Marlin to cylinder length, then shouldering the case so it will fit your chamber.
Then load with a trimmed Win AA 410 wad, and add shot and then an inverted 45 cal gas check or a cardboard
over shot wad and elmer's glue.

Johnny V same for you in 45 ACP and you will not have to use Moon Clips or dig them out

For auto 45ACP shot shells, have you tried 45 Win Mag brass??

Mike

Mike,

With the 45 ACP, the cartridge is necked down after inserting the wad, but before the shot is added. The reason for the .37 caliber gas check is, the case, after necking down (must be necked down to fit within the rifling), is now the size of a .40 caliber. Also, I am running these through a 1911 and they cycle the action flawlessly with a crimped in gas check, but not with a cardboard overshot wad (got a few stovepipes with the cardboard). I have heard of some guys using the .45 Mag brass, but I have a sufficient supply of 7.62 so that's why I do it the way I do.

Here's a link to the post on the 45 ACP shotshells.